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PCB toner transfer

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yea that's why i tried it,if it works for board house's why not me? and it works great everytime so far and your finnished board is 1/16" thick when your done.what more could you ask for(don't say easy via's):)
 
3v0, next time I'm in that store (it is way on the other side of town ~ 1 hour drive) I'm going to pick up some of that green foil... I also have some drills to return to another store over on that side of town. I bought a pack of constant shank drills, which were inserted in a foam block, then shrink wrapped. The shrink, (or customers squeezing the package) broke all of the smallest bits, which were the ones I bought the package for. grrr

Bbarney,
That sounds like a workable solution, next time I buy pcb I'll have to get some thin one sided stuff.

Hero,
I would print both disigns on the same piece of paper in reverse of each other and the thickness of the PCB separating the two
I think that it would be difficult to print this way from EAGLE, and folding it well enough would also be quite difficult. I did try hinging two sheets, but the holes were off by just enough to make the board unusable.

Evandude, if I had my technique down as well as you, I probably wouldn't need to go double sided. My traces, especially the thin ~10 mil, don't always come out straight (too much pressure.) I think I had the magazine paper tech down a lot better, but when I switched to the Pulsar stuff, and had the first few flake, added more heat, and more pressure. Perhaps I just have to make a lot more boards.
Well I prepped one side of a board the other day, and transfered it to the copper, but the toner has gotten 'mighty thin.' I picked up a new cartridge, but haven't put it in yet.
 
BeeBop
Evandude, if I had my technique down as well as you, I probably wouldn't need to go double sided. My traces, especially the thin ~10 mil, don't always come out straight (too much pressure.) I think I had the magazine paper tech down a lot better, but when I switched to the Pulsar stuff, and had the first few flake, added more heat, and more pressure. Perhaps I just have to make a lot more boards.
Well I prepped one side of a board the other day, and transfered it to the copper, but the toner has gotten 'mighty thin.' I picked up a new cartridge, but haven't put it in yet.

Yes try the new cartridge first.

I use a laminator and have never had problems. I got it because I dislike the variability of a hand held iron. The pulsar site has a method where you roll a large dowel under the board while you iron it. The idea is it applies high pressure in a laminator like action.

If you are in real trouble give Frank (IIRC) at Pulsar a call. He can help you iron out (pun) any problems you are having with the process.
 
I use a laminator too,used to iron them on and was really sucsessful with that method but the laminator is oh so easy and mine have been perfect using press+peel.you can buy the same lamintor at Staple's "GBC CREATIVE LAMINTOR" just when you buy a kit from Pulsar you get pcb+foils to make decals which are pretty cool check it out
 
bbarney said:
I use a laminator too,used to iron them on and was really sucsessful with that method but the laminator is oh so easy and mine have been perfect using press+peel.you can buy the same lamintor at Staple's "GBC CREATIVE LAMINTOR" just when you buy a kit from Pulsar you get pcb+foils to make decals which are pretty cool check it out

The GBC CREATIVE LAMINTOR has been discontinued. The replacement is the GBC H210.

I watched the decal video on the Pulsar site. Neat stuff.
 
Yes, I did see the 'rolling pin' idea, just haven't tried it yet.

So does the laminator require any mods? or just use it out of the box? Sounds like a great way to go.
 
BeeBop said:
Yes, I did see the 'rolling pin' idea, just haven't tried it yet.

So does the laminator require any mods? or just use it out of the box? Sounds like a great way to go.
From the pulsar site.

TIA FEATURES:

Variable board thickness: Insert any board thickness from .032” thickness down to super-flexible .003” flex. Our PCB "Fab-in-a-Box" kit includes .032" board however, you can also run boards as thick as .064" through this unit too.

Hot Roll Laminator: Externally heated rollers provide fine line heat and pressure simultaneously for perfect toner fusion. Never loose a micro-sized piece of toner image any more.

Fast Transport Speed: Six seconds per inch. An 8” x 10” panel is processed in about a minute.
 
it's great for making front panels,you can get some pretty professional looking results.anyways I'am real happy with the whole system but I do prefer press+peel over pulsar's toner paper but their toner paper works good for the decals
 
your right about the temperature Evan,that was the biggest problem I had with p+p and the iron.Once you find the right spot on your iron most boards turn out pretty good first time,that's why I like the laminator,you don't have worry about the heat or the pressure plus you know what it is like to make a large board with the iron,it's a real pain and a crap shoot whether it turns out or not but the laminator can do 9" wide by however long you like just feed it in and wait for it to come out the other side.I see you use laquer thinner you should try acetone much cheaper and it's not as smelly.
 
bbarney said:
your right about the temperature Evan,that was the biggest problem I had with p+p and the iron.Once you find the right spot on your iron most boards turn out pretty good first time,that's why I like the laminator,you don't have worry about the heat or the pressure plus you know what it is like to make a large board with the iron,it's a real pain and a crap shoot whether it turns out or not but the laminator can do 9" wide by however long you like just feed it in and wait for it to come out the other side.I see you use laquer thinner you should try acetone much cheaper and it's not as smelly.

Since I started using a roller while ironing the pattern, (the tip I got from the Pulsar website), I haven't had any trouble with larger boards - it does the same job a laminator does, after all. Of course, there's still heat and overall pressure on the iron to worry about, but using a roller makes it a lot more predictable. I'll put it this way, if I had a laminator I'd definitely use it, but my $7 iron works well enough for me at present to not be able to justify spending $50, $100, or more on a laminator.

My big can of lacquer thinner is running out, so maybe I'll try acetone once it's gone. Acetone is more generally useful for me to keep around for other purposes anyway.
 
I think I paid $2.00 for a quart can of acetone and the last gallon of thinner I bought was about $35.00 although I think the thinner cost more cause you get a better buZZZZZZZZZZZ off of it :)
 
Evan,
I think you have a really nice site there. I didn't spend long, as I was off to Staples. Nice little table saw!

Staples had a GBC H210, but it was over $200, so I checked out Office Depot, who had it for $140. I didn't buy that, though, as they had the Creative for $50, which seemed like a good deal. OK, I'm off to try one!

BTW, I thought lacquer thinner was acetone?
 
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BeeBop said:
Evan,
I think you have a really nice site there. I didn't spend long, as I was off to Staples.
Staples had a GBC H210, but it was over $200, so I checked out Office Depot, who had it for $140. I didn't buy that, though, as they had the Creative for $50, which seemed like a good deal. OK, I'm off to try one!

BTW, I thought lacquer thinner was acetone?

I found the H210 for $85 US and an instant online rebate that took it down to $65 at staples online. Google for "staples GBC H210" and it shows up as
Product search results for staples GBC H210
GBC HeatSeal H210 Laminating Machine - $84.99 - Staples.com
Once you get to the page there is an additional rebate. The H210 is a better machine then the CREATIVE. Both will work.
 
Has anyone tried experimenting with different toners ?

At home i have an HP 2300n with a Grand & Toy toner cartridge and the work is AWFUL ! The toner is VERY porous and the etchant (Ammonium persulfate) passes through it and attacks the copper, making awful boards. At my job site, we have an HP multu-function printer with an original HP toner cartridge. I tried it and the boards are MUCH better. No degradation of the copper traces. Seems that the HP toner is much more liquid tight.

Has anyone notice anything similar ?

Thanks !
 
The stuff that melts is plastic. The refilled cartridges (and borther) use less plastic and in its place some sort of non melting filler.

Even with a good cartridge there is some possibility of having pits in the toner. (but much less and more so as the cartridge is used)

Pulsar has a foil that you laminate to the top of the toner. It bridges small pits and makes the toner more sturdy.

At one time there was a toner made special for toner transfer but I no idea if it still exists.
 
Magazine paper works well for me but you need to soak it for awhile until it peels off.

I have found that if the water is simmering hot, then the process is much faster. I am not sure if the PCB should cool off before trying to remove the last paper shreds
I use an aluminum (throwaway) pie pan with about 1/2" of water.
Note: boiling water is way below the toner's melting point.
 
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Use pressnpeel blue. It adds its own coating as well as the toner, and it peels straight off with no soaking needed. Use a cheap $25 laminator to get a good repeatable temperature result, and with the pressnpeel you dont need a lot of toner density as it adds it's own layer above the toner, I recently turned my toner density down to standard (not high) and now th etraces are even sharper still.

Until one of the other makers comes out with a paper that adds it's own mask layer (like pressnpeel blue does) they are always going to be more critical as to which toner type, need more toner, get more problems with pinholes and broken tracks, and have those soaking issues to remove the paper.

For a few cents extra per PCB I would just buy the pnp blue and a laminator.
 
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Hi Badar where do you live. I have been making PCB's for about 3 months now and will help you with where to get things locally.
 
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