PCB toner transfer

[Badar]

From the forum i got the concept of toner tranfer.
Google searches revealed me some paper types to use for the purpose and then heat my printed paper on the pcb using an iron.The paper i got is 3G tranparency sheet which the shopkeeper told is the manufacturer of hp tranparency sheet as hp does not make the sheets by themselves.
But these sheets do not tranfer the toner on the pcb by this method.
Which method or paper should i use for this purpose which works best on all types of PCB's.

 

[j.p.bill]

The paper that uses the toner transfer dissolves in water. You iron it on the pcb and then wash off the paper with no toner on it. Sounds like a kind of rice paper, but I don't know.

 

[Badar]

What is the exact name of the paper.
The sheet i used was water resistant.

 

[Shax]

The best paper I have used is glossy inkjet photo paper.. Put it thru your laser printer, and print on the shiny side.. Once you've ironed the image onto your pcb, the glossy coat seems to come right off.. usually without any water being applied.
Some people use glossy magazine pages, but I haven't tried that yet..

Alternatively, you could always use Press'n'Peel, but the results with that seem to be erratic.
A tip for using P'n'P film is to cut off just enough for the pcb you'll be making, and use double sided tape to fix the cut section to a laserprint of your pcb, and then do the real print over the top. That way, you don't waste a whole sheet when you realise you made a mistake with the mirroring!!!

 

[Hero999]

Magazine paper works well for me but you need to soak it for awhile until it peels off.

 

[mramos1]

What is the exact name of the paper.
The sheet i used was water resistant.

Hammermill OfficeOne Business Gloss (best, hard to find))
Staples Picture Paper (really good; do not see it anymore)
Hammermill Laser Color Gloss (pretty good, can get it almost anywhere)
HP Presentation Paper (have not tried, but looks like it will work fine)
Magazine Paper as Hero999 said (should work fine if thick enough weight)

I tried the magazine paper once from something my wife had, the paper was too thin and jammed the laser, I can not bring myself to cutting up the electronics magazines. But that is you cheap fast solution. It looks like it will take a lot of time in water to get it off. I still want to try it.

www.bimini.com/pcbtoner is a link to a board I did with the hammermill Laser Color Gloss. It was OK.

 

[Hero999]

On the contary, it's not that hard to remove. I just leave it to soak for half an hour in cold water, then wash off the remainder with some soap.

 

[mramos1]

Ahh! If not in a hurry it sounds great for the price. I normally wait 5 minutes or so and remove it. I guess I should get it 15-30 minutes and see how good all the other paper works.

 

[3v0]

I use the transfer paper sold by **broken link removed** transfer is 100% and the paper floats off in about a minute. It also does a better job then paper not intended for the purpose. It is easy to do and if you have everything setup you can go from printer to etched board in about 15 minutes.

Note that the green here is a spray on coating not solder resist.

**broken link removed**

3v0

 

[mramos1]

I saw they "Pular" had a screening layer product too. A friend and I were thinking about getting that for fun. Just to label where the parts go and the green stuff is cool too. Extra work though. We are going to do tinning power instead.

Now I mirror the part locations on the copper. I can do that sitting at the computer and fast. I also cover the open areas with copper to save the acid.

For what I do, a pack of shiny paper works fine. And I will try Hero999's way too again too. Just have to find the right magazine.

Now if it really comes off in 1 minute, no rubbing it and the cost is fair per sheet?

I wait 5 minutes for the 500 sheets for $8US to come off (and it would work better if I would wait longer like Hero999 says).

What do you pay for their product per sheet? The blue press-n-peel was $1 a sheet when I tried it.

 

[tmcolby]

you will be fine with just about any high quality matte paper. i have great luck with cannon matte photo paper.

i use a mixture of 2 parts hydrogen peroxide and 1 part muratic (pool) acid as an etchant. very cheap!

 

[Oznog]

I have a Samsung ML2010 and was really seeing problems with both the magazine paper and Pulsar paper.

The toner prints ok at the first part of the image, but after a couple of inches gets spotty. I printed again with normal paper and it came out fine!

Any ideas??

 

[3v0]

I have a Samsung ML2010 and was really seeing problems with both the magazine paper and Pulsar paper.

The toner prints ok at the first part of the image, but after a couple of inches gets spotty. I printed again with normal paper and it came out fine!
Any ideas??

Could be the printer or the toner. When talking with the people at Pulsar they recomended not using refilled or offbrand toner cartridges.

They also suggested buying a new cartridge and using it only for PCB artwork. When the everyday cartrdiges goes MT switch in the new one and get another for PCB only work.

3v0

 

[3v0]

Now if it really comes off in 1 minute, no rubbing it and the cost is fair per sheet?

I wait 5 minutes for the 500 sheets for $8US to come off (and it would work better if I would wait longer like Hero999 says).

What do you pay for their product per sheet? The blue press-n-peel was $1 a sheet when I tried it.

Yes in warm water if floats up in about 1 minute, no more then 2, more like 1.

The green stuff/foil seals the toner to prevent holes in the traces. I do not think you can get the very fine lines to work well without it. A second layer of green foil helps make up for a some what tired (edit: not new) cartridge. The green foil sticks to sharpie marker ink so you can still touch up artwork. It is rare that you need to do touchup. The key is to not touch the board or paper once they are clean.

DigiKey and Mouser carry it, here are the Mouser numbers

5165-TTS10 TTS-10 Unspecified
Toner Transfer Paper TONER TRANSFER 10SHT
1: $14.95

5165-GTRF GREENTRF
TONER REACTIVE FOIL GREEN 8 x15'
$9.13

5165-WTRF WHITETRF
TONER RECACTIVE FOIL WHITE 8 x 15' ROLL
$9.13

You need the Paper and the Green Foil so a set is bit under 25$ US.
There are 10 sheets of paper so it is about $2.50 a sheet including the foil. That works out to 0.25$ US per square inch.
Maybe I am a clutz but I could never run lines between pads prior to using this system. Now I do it without thinking. The example in my last posting shows where they ran 2 lines between pads without shrinking the pads. Given how fine the detail is, and how easy it is to use, it is a bargain.

I use laserjet mailing labels as tape in that it does not gum up the printer or laminator in the following.

• Print out the EagleCad artwork on regular paper.
• Cut transfer paper to size and tape top edge over image on regular paper.
• Set the printer to darkest output.
• Print EagleCad artwork on transfer paper.
• Cut PCB to size.
• Tape transfer paper with image to PCB.
• Run PCB with paper through laminator twice.
• Put cooled PCB in water to lift transfer paper.
• Dry PCB.
• Cut two sheets of green foil.
• Attach first foil to PCB with mailing label.
• Laminalte twice.
• Cool and peel off foil.
• Attach 2nd foil to PCB with mailing label.
• Cool and peel.
• (2 sided board only) cover back side with box tape.
• Etch with small sponge and ferric chloride.
• Remove box tape.
• Remove artwork with acetone.
• Drill.
• Single sided board stop here.
• Print top artwork on regular paper.
• Cut transfer paper to size.
• Tape transfer paper image over image on regular paper.
• Using bright light (light table if you have one) align the artwork on the transfer paper to the holes on the PCB.
• Attach with mailing label.
• Continue as you did on first side.
• Set the printer back to normal output.

See pulsar for exact direction. They have pictures.


It seems like a lot of steps but they go fast, even the etching is quick esp with 2 oz copper. In the time I took to write this reply I could have made (but not drilled) several boards if the laminator or iron was hot.

It goes even faster if you make a few boards at a time. While one board is cooling or sitting in the water you can work on the next one. The list looks long but, you can make a single sided board in about 15 minutes once you get the hang of it.

3v0

 

[cadstarsucks]

I use the transfer paper sold by **broken link removed** transfer is 100% and the paper floats off in about a minute. It also does a better job then paper not intended for the purpose. It is easy to do and if you have everything setup you can go from printer to etched board in about 15 minutes.

Note that the green here is a spray on coating not solder resist.
3v0

Very nice!

D.

 

[evandude]

That Pulsar paper does look very nice (especially based on that image you posted), but in their tutorial they recommend ironing their TRF (toner reactive foil) on top after you transfer the toner. Do you use TRF or just the initial transfer?
This seems to be exactly the same as what gets done with Press-n-peel blue sheets, except with PnP it's all done in one step - print pattern, iron, and immediately peel it off, and you're ready to go, no soaking required. ( https://www.techniks.com )
I do know from personal experience that this plastic-foil-type coating that gets put on top of the toner makes a HUGE difference in etching because you're not relying on the quality of the toner to make a perfect resist - even using a no-brand, dirt-cheap, refilled toner cartridge that I bought on ebay, I still never see pitting/etching through the resist. I'm sure whatever premium you pay for the transfer sheets is made up for in the price difference between cheap refilled toner cartridges and way-overpriced brand-new ones.

 

[3v0]

Evandude,
I use the TRF foil on top of the toner. If the board is very fine or if the foil wrinkles I use two layers of the foil.

It may be that the two systems work about the same. Do you get the same detail with the Press-n-peel blue ? If so it seems the systems are about equivlent.

3v0

 

[evandude]

I've never really tried going below 10 mils, partly because none of my boards have required it, and partly because it wasn't until recently that I figured out how to get Eagle to let me select that fine of a trace width.

Some older pictures of some of my results, just for reference (10 mil traces all around):
https://eegeek.net/electronics/pnpb_transferred.jpg
**broken link removed**
https://eegeek.net/electronics/pnpb_etched.jpg

It's kind of hard to see, since the blue film basically looks black from most angles when it's on the toner, but it is in fact on there.

 

[Oznog]

I did use the stock toner that came with the ML2010 printer.

BTW, the toner will "reflow" at high temps. You can put the board in the oven and it'll soften, almost liquify. I'm just thinking if there's any pinholes or lamination issues that allowing it to reform could take care of adhesion problems, and might pop out any pinholes or cracks in the toner layer. I can't back that up yet though.

 

[BeeBop]

I use the TRF foil on top of the toner. If the board is very fine or if the foil wrinkles I use two layers of the foil.

That's the trick then. I use the stuff without the foil, but all my traces are quite wide.
I started with the Pulsar paper because it was on the shelf of a local shop, and I thought I'd try it. The first couple of times it didn't work near as well as magazine paper, but I think that was just one sheet. The rest seems quite good. Now I want to take a trip back to that store for the foil.