PCB Software Suggestion because Eagle is teh LAME

[iso9001]

I know I know. There are already many posts about PCB Layout software. I am aware. However, it seems I've tried a TON of them and they are suck in different but nearly equal ways.

I had been using pcbexpress or expresspcb I can't remember which for awhile, but they are expensive for what you get. Fine for prototype (fast) but too expensive when looking at soldermask and larger runs.

I need to get my designs into a gerber format before they can even be quoted anywhere else, such is my problem:

Eagle - EVERYONE seems to recommend this but its got to have the weakest interface known to man. Who ever decided that a "select closest" approach was a good idea has obviously never used a cad program (EVER). Selecting a component and pressing Delete really should delete the part. Not so with Eagle. All this along with Redraw errors and scrolling problems. I can not use it, it will drive me crazy!

I tried new-wave-concpet's program which had REALLY poor support for SMD parts. ORCAD which was bloated and confusing. Heard horrible things about Protel, and PCAD looks pretty confusing.

I don't really care about the price since the company is buying it, but I need something that is easy to use, powerful enough to auto route and everything else is just extra.

Any suggestions ?

 

[bryan1]

Hiya ISO,
Eh mate I use sprint layout 4 software by abacom, i've got eagle on my computer but I'll be stuffed if I can work it out. I find the sprint software easy to use and some of the features really make it easy to produce a pcb in no time flat. It isn't expensive to buy and from a pcb software learners point of view this software is near perfect.

Check it out

Cheers Bryan

 

[Russlk]

I have used Ultiboard from Electronics Workbench. The schematic capture was terrible but I think they cleaned that up. No matter which program you choose there is a learning curve and the availability of support help is what I would look for. I found Eagle to be good in that regard, I send an email and the next day get an answer. I sent a lot of emails before I got proficient.

 

[iso9001]

bryan1: Thanks, I'll give that a try.

Russlk: I think I could eventually figure it out, but I'de never like it. It doesn't conform to a "Standard Windows Interface" at all. Its interface is seriously one of the worst I've ever used. "Click Closest" is SUCH a mistake. Not even an option to turn that off. I saw Ultiboard, I'll go download an eval for it, see how that one goes.

Today I installed and tried 7 PCB programs, I disliked every single one for thier horrible interfaces (AND I AM A CAD GUY!) except for Easy-PC. That one is pretty good. Don't know it the program is worth anything or not, but at least I can use it.

 

[inaPICle]

www.diptrace.com

 

[iso9001]

Thanks inaPICle! Thats almost perfect!

I laughed my ass off when I read this on the DIPTrace website:

"I have downloaded about all of the evaluation versions of schematic editior/pcb layout software that I could find. I narrowed down my choice to Eagle until I found DipTrace. I am amazed at how easy DipTrace is to use. It is miles above the other programs I have tried including Eagle."


The only thing I don't like so far is its a little confusing doing manual tracing. I might be missing somthing but for the life of my I cant figure out how to delete half a trace. Every time I try its all or nothing,

DIPTrace is looking like the winner so far,

Thanks

 

[iso9001]

DIPTrace is good, there are a few things I don't really like tho.

Can't edit all planes at once, need to explicitly select a plane to edit. Can't make a via where ever you want, program decides for you. Needs a little work with the manual controls (via, traces), like deleting a section of a net isn't allowed (dumb).

One the other hand DIPTrace is only version 1.22 so they'l probably change somthings around.

I'm going to look at 'sprint layout 4' and Ultiboard.

 

[inaPICle]

DIPTrace is good, there are a few things I don't really like tho.

Can't edit all planes at once, need to explicitly select a plane to edit. Can't make a via where ever you want, program decides for you. Needs a little work with the manual controls (via, traces), like deleting a section of a net isn't allowed (dumb).

One the other hand DIPTrace is only version 1.22 so they'l probably change somthings around.

I'm going to look at 'sprint layout 4' and Ultiboard.

I agree diptrace isn't perfect, but it was the best so far.

Thanks for the Ultiboard mention. I'm going to try that too.

inaPICle

 

[William At MyBlueRoom]

I use Sprint Layout, I also found eagle felt more like a DOS program than a windows one.

Sprint Layout is cheap, and useable. The autorouter is very primitive (one track at a time) but is adequate for small PCB designs where you want to tweak every little square inch. I really like how easy it was to learn and make your own component library.

 

[William At MyBlueRoom]

And with a tweak :wink:

 

[Oznog]

Eagle - EVERYONE seems to recommend this but its got to have the weakest interface known to man. Who ever decided that a "select closest" approach was a good idea has obviously never used a cad program (EVER). Selecting a component and pressing Delete really should delete the part. Not so with Eagle. All this along with Redraw errors and scrolling problems. I can not use it, it will drive me crazy!

Don't be too quick to bash it. I know it's got annoying quirks. Actually I don't see the interface as a major issue. I hate their library management problems which causes problems for basically everybody.

I have no idea what you're talking about in deleting a part, unless you're talking about deleting it in the library. Deleting from the lib is one of those lib management problems.

It does have an effective autorouter and lots of library parts. I've found it a very practical and effective tool for even large designs.

Its autorouter is lousy at creating single sided designs. I sure wish it would know how to make jumpers automatically, make them all horizontal, vertical, not on top of parts or each other, as few as possible, and as short as possible. That would rock.

 

[Peepsalot]

I just found out about this free open source program tonight, haven't even really had a chance to test it out. Too busy researching what parts I need for my project... but anyways, the screenshots look pretty. :lol:

**broken link removed**
There is not a slick install file, just a big zip that has the Windows binaries in it. Looks like it is updated very often since the version I got was timestamped for today.
download directory: **broken link removed**
just get that large "kicad-2006-... .zip" file

 

[Dan East]

Geez, 73 MB download. What in the world is taking up so much space? The parts library?

Dan East

 

[Peepsalot]

Actually, the parts library that is included is kinda small. :lol:

What is taking up space? The help directory is ~30MB (in 5 different languages). The zip includes executables for linux systems as well as windows(in both unicode and non-unicode, whatever that means). And the 3d rendering program(wings3d) is about 10mb.

Basically, it's this entire directory structure in one zip:
ftp://iut-tice.ujf-grenoble.fr/cao/kicad
So you could pick and choose from there to reduce the download. Althought, i'm not sure exactly which files are essential and which aren't.

You're not on dial-up are you? :shock:

 

[Peepsalot]

Also, I mentioned that the parts library is small, well, someone wrote a script to convert Eagle library to this program, and the redulting files are here:
**broken link removed**

 

[mstechca]

I use IVEX winboard for my PCB's.

Generally it is good, but I have to adjust the settings often.
It is meant for Windows 3.x but I use it on 95.

The great thing about it is that I can print out exactly what I want, and at the right size!

Also, the interface is very easy.

Ivex is out of business now, but I got a free CD from them included in a board production kit a few years ago.

If ivex still exists, you can try www.ivex.com.

 

[bryan1]

-=: The above message has been brought to you by a partially educated hands-on
electronics freak. Please correct me if I make mistakes. :=-

Well if this is the case then we be correcting you 24/7 :evil: . Well if you don't know the correct answer to an OP's question DON'T ANSWER IT. Since I've been back from my last job just about every post you've done is either incorrect or just plain useless garbage. So stop wasting the bandwidth on this forum and spend a bit of time learning electronics instead of asumming everything in your head is right or just grow up and get a life.

My 2.2 cents (gotta add GST)

Bryan :twisted:

 

[Dan East]

Regarding kicad, I've given it a try, and come across a couple things that are big negatives for me. The main issue is that the schematic and PCB aren't really linked. In Eagle if I add a part of the schematic, then switch to the PCB, the new part is sitting there waiting for placement.

With kicad I have to go through several steps to manually link the two:
Netlist generation
run Cvpcb
Load the netlist
Save the netlist and component list
Run Pcbnew
Read netlist

And, well, that's as far as I've got. The PIC I placed in the schematic still isn't showing up in pcbnew.

Dan East

 

[Dan East]

Okay, it's now trying to properly load the net and component list in pcbnew, but pcbnew reports that the PIC component does not have an associated module to the component defined in EESchema.

All components should be defined in both, so that's strange.

Dan East

 

[mstechca]

Well if this is the case then we be correcting you 24/7 :evil: . Well if you don't know the correct answer to an OP's question DON'T ANSWER IT.

Uh, do you understand that NOBODY is PERFECT?

...just about every post you've done is either incorrect or just plain useless garbage.

Posts can be easily ignored, and if you want to ignore them, be my guest.
Garbage to you could be treasure to someone else.

So stop wasting the bandwidth on this forum and spend a bit of time learning electronics instead of asumming everything in your head is right...

Just for that remark, I think I'm going to give a picture of all my real PCB's.

and let's look at it this way, I do have experience, or I wouldn't be able to make a circuit that produces noise.

So PLEASE do not just knock me down like that again in the public.
If you need to take up something with me personally, PM me.