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PCB Prototyping

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yngndrw

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Hi,

I know there are a few resources on Google and the like, but they all seem to conflict with each other in their methods.

Firstly I don't have a laser printer and while I could get one if it's really required, I'd prefer not to spend that much money.

What is the best method of someone like me, just starting out with PCB's to create them ? What equipment do I require and what additional equipment is suggested ?

What can be done with the acid when I've finished with it ?

Any other comments / suggestions.

PS: I'm interested in both single-sided and double sided. I'd also like to get into SMD.

Thanks in advance !
 
You could just use a board house. You get plating and can get more layers and no worry about drilling holes, or cutting boards. At www.batchpcb.com it's $2.50 per square inch of board for a 2-layered board. I use a board house because I cannot be bothered to get all the startup equipment (tank, maybe a light, printer, etc), and then spend the time to deal with the chemicals, drill the holes (you'd need to buy a drill press too) only to come up with a board that's probably subpar and cost more in time and money for the frequency and complexity of the boards I make.

But if you are making your own, this should help you decide what etchant to use and what to do with it when you're done:
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2007/08/appguide1206.pdf

(after you're really done with it and it can no longer be used you have to store it somewhere and take it to a hazardous waste disposal facility or an "Eco-Center" as they are called where I am from).

Printers are cheap- toner and ink is expensive.
 
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Thanks for your reply.

I've looked into board houses with Google and never found anywhere that cheap, having said that I was looking in the UK. Problem is that it still costs a fair amount with the setup charge and the shipping costs. Also the wait for each board would be a bit too long for prototyping. Would be great for testing final designs though, so I'll keep the link stored. ;)

I have a drill press so that's not a problem and I was wanting to get into SMD anyway. Specifically what kind of equipment would be required ?

I've heard of a laser printer toner transfer method which would remove the requirement for a light box ? Is that really as reliable as it seems ?

Any other tips ?

Thanks again. :)
 
yngndrw said:
Thanks for your reply.

I've looked into board houses with Google and never found anywhere that cheap, having said that I was looking in the UK. Problem is that it still costs a fair amount with the setup charge and the shipping costs. Also the wait for each board would be a bit too long for prototyping. Would be great for testing final designs though, so I'll keep the link stored. ;)

I have a drill press so that's not a problem and I was wanting to get into SMD anyway. Specifically what kind of equipment would be required ?

I've heard of a laser printer toner transfer method which would remove the requirement for a light box ? Is that really as reliable as it seems ?

Any other tips ?

Thanks again. :)

I think...etchant, a laser printer, transfer paper, pre-sensitized PCB (maybe some way to keep it from getting exposed like a dark room? I'm not sure how that works since I know most people don't have a dark room), an exposure light, an etchant tank, a bubbler, and a heater.
 
Ah okay then, I have read that you can just use a tray instead of a tank. Is this true ? It's just that the tanks are pretty expensive as far as I've seen.

What kind of lights can be used ? Just UV or anything else ? Will sunlight do ?

Thanks.
 
Eagle > CNC > PulsarProFx

There is a lot to be said for a board house. On the other hand you can make good quality boards yourself but as dknguyen said they will not be plated through.

On the upside is you do not have to wait. People are all over the map on what works best for them. I am sure you have seen the variants on the net.

I have used most of the methods including silkscreen. What works for me and gives me the best quality is toner transfer using the system from PulsarProFx.com. If you have everything ready to go you can make a board in 15 minutes + drilling time. They also have a foil that you can laminate to the toner. The foil will bridge any pinholes in the toner and produce better traces. I use .01 in traces, according their website you can use[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] "Trace pitch down to .004".[/SIZE][/FONT]

You can make boards using various papers with varied results. I find the purpose made transfer paper gives me the best results in terms of resolution and reliability. The starter kit from PulsarPro is $75 and includes white foil for producing silkscreen like printing on the board. I allso suggest you buy a laminator ($50-$100) and small drill press ($35 when on sale at harbor freight). You easily toss $200 at it. You get a nearly bullet proof setup, and the cost for paper and foil is 8 cents per square inch.

The starter kit from Pulsar should provide 10 sheets (900+ sq in) of paper and lifetime phone support from the man behind the product line.

I have switched from Feric Chloride to Sodium Persulphate(sp?). It etches a bit slower but is a lot easier to deal with, no harmful fumes. I dump my used etchant in a plastic butter tub an in a day or two it evaporates leaving blue crystals. I understand SP is much less of an environmental problem then FC.

To layout the boards I use Eagle. I drill the holes on a small CNC prior to etching.
 
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Unless you are doing large boards you can etch without a tank.

One person (sorry, name escapes me) heats [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva]Sodium Persulphate and water in the microwave. It and the board go into a ziplock freezer bag[/FONT]. He squishes the bag to keep the fluid moving till the board is etched.

The people at pulsarPro dip a small sponge in Feric Chloride and wipe the board with it till the board is etched. This may only work if you use their foil.

I heat my [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva]Sodium Persulphate and water in the microwave. The actual etching is done in a glass bread pan under a heat lamp to keep the solution warm. The pan sits on a rolled up paper towel to make it easy to rock every minute or two.

They all work.
[/FONT]
 
I would use a board house if it is at all an option. We have a PCB mill at work as well as as an etching system and the only time we do not use Advanced Circuits for our boards is when we can't stand the 2-day turn around time (1 day to make then ship overnight the next day). It's a $15k USD mill that will do 8/8 tracks/spacing, if that tells you how much easier board houses are. We also have all the equipment for doing PTH's and multilayer boards. The PTH's plater hasn't been setup in years and the board press still has the bubble wrap on the inside. Professionally made boards are so cheap these days it's just not economical for us to make our own. We're looking to get rid of everything but the mill itself, and that's only because we occasionally have the need for boards same day.

Board houses rule....

One tip: get others interested in your projects and order multiple boards. 1 board from advanced ckts is $50 for a given size, whereas ten will cost you less than ten bucks per board. Use as much SMT as possible and keep board size down.
 
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Thank you very much for your replies.

The main reason for me getting PCB's is learning about SMD/T and to practice, so I don't really have any projects that others would be interested in.

The PulsarPro system seems quite nice, although here in the UK we have a system called Press & Peel which seems the same. Has anyone used this ? It would save me a lot of time and money to use this instead of importing stuff.

Board houses would probably be my choise when I get into it more, but untill then it's probably best with me practicing with my own stuff. I don't mind the extra fuss if it saves me some money.

Thanks anyhow, you've all given me plenty of options and ideas. :)
 
About them laminators - anyone have any good suggestions?

The ones I see were clearly for paper, and have a gap of 0.6mm which isn't enough to fit a pcb through unless you have a really thin one...

Or is it fairly easy to hack these laminators to accept 1/16" FR4? Even 1/32" FR4 would be a tight fit?

Anyone actually use a full-sized machine drill press for drilling FR4 or would it be better to get a smaller one?
 
[SIZE=-1]Look at the GBC laminators.
The people at pulsarProFx are now suggesting/selling the [/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][SIZE=-1]GBC 9" laminator.

EDIT
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][SIZE=-1]Variable board thickness: [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][SIZE=-1]Insert any board thickness from .032” thickness down to super-flexible .003” flex. It is not recommended for .064" thickness laminates although if you must use this thicker board, it can physically pass through the unit. Because the board is so thick, it does require you to help the board through with a little push so the motor does not stall.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][/FONT]
 
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Hmm. sounds like that .032" <=> 1/32" and .064" <=> 1/16" ... I still have a pretty decent amount of 1/16" FR4 I want to use, which is why I'm wondering about some laminator that can handle these thicker boards. *sigh*
 
I have "in house" PCB production facilities.

I print from my trusty (read old !!!) Epson Stylus 2500 inkjet onto inkjet transparancies purchased from www.paperselect.co.uk (speak to Nigel !)

I then expose them onto photoboard (www.rapidelectronics.co.uk) for 8 minutes with my trusty (read old !!) RS UV light box. For larger designs/PCBs I've got a homemade light box that I picked up off Ebay for pennies.

Develop them in developing fluid (half strength) from crystals mixed with hot water from Rapid Electronics

Etch them in my heated Mega triple etch tank

Drill them with a Dremmel on a stand using PCB drill bits purchased from www.axminster.co.uk

I can go from a design on the screen to a batch of PCBs in a couple of hours.
 
boxer4 said:
Hmm. sounds like that .032" <=> 1/32" and .064" <=> 1/16" ... I still have a pretty decent amount of 1/16" FR4 I want to use, which is why I'm wondering about some laminator that can handle these thicker boards. *sigh*

I think you should be able to take the laminator apart and add shims to space the roller. PulsarProFx had instructions for this some time ago.

For the 1/16 board you may want to try using a dowel under the board and a clothes iron. Pulsar has how to do this under their tips.

The reason I go on about Pulsar is that they guy who runs it actualy cares about the people who use his products. He spends a good deal of this time working on improving them or inventing new ones. And best of all if you have a problem you can call him on the phone or email him.
 
yngndrw said:
Hi,

I know there are a few resources on Google and the like, but they all seem to conflict with each other in their methods.

Firstly I don't have a laser printer and while I could get one if it's really required, I'd prefer not to spend that much money.

What is the best method of someone like me, just starting out with PCB's to create them ? What equipment do I require and what additional equipment is suggested ?

What can be done with the acid when I've finished with it ?

Any other comments / suggestions.

PS: I'm interested in both single-sided and double sided. I'd also like to get into SMD.

Thanks in advance !

Here is a fine article on the subject: https://eegeek.net/content/view/34/31/
A laser printer is NOT needed just make a copy of your artwork in a toner based copier.
A laminator is NOT needed, I picked up a used cloths iron for a dollar it works great.
Spend the money you save on a few sheets of Press-N-Peel, it is the greatest. For a good cheap etching solution use Muriatic Acid and Hydrogen Peroxide, cost here in the US about $ 0.50 a pint. 1/2 cup will etch about 10sq". I etch in a plastic tray and use a $1.00 turkey baster to agitate the acid and speed up the etching.
There are more info about this in several other threads, so do a search.
And try Express PCB for your artwork, it is free and has a short learning curve.
 
Thanks for your reply and link.

I have decided to get a laser printer seems as pretty much any method requires some form of toner printing. I could do with one for Uni anyway.

I'm considering making a vertical bubble etch tank like in the link - Just seems safer than an open tray.

I've just learnt how to use Eagle, how does Express PCB compare to that ?

Thanks. :)
 
I suggest you use sodium phosphate etchant. It is much more suited to dorm room etchaning and there is no noxious fumes.

One student I know heats the solution in the microwave and then puts the etchant and board in a zip lock freezer bag to etch.
 
Thanks I'll get some Sodium Phosphate, in my local supplier (Maplin) it seems to be cheaper that Ferric Chloride aswell. :eek:

Using a zip-lock bag, I dunno it seems dodgy to me - What if it doesn't seal properly ?
 
Where can you get muriatic acid easily these days? Seems with all the recent drug busts it's really tough to get clean HCl these days. The only source of HCl I got recently is from toilet bowl cleaner but I wouldn't use that for etchant due to the other 'crap' in it (which was fine, I needed to clean crap from my toilet).
 
boxer4 said:
Where can you get muriatic acid easily these days? Seems with all the recent drug busts it's really tough to get clean HCl these days. The only source of HCl I got recently is from toilet bowl cleaner but I wouldn't use that for etchant due to the other 'crap' in it (which was fine, I needed to clean crap from my toilet).

I can't find anywhere to buy it in the UK, or atleast in my local suppliers.
 
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