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PAL on USA Black and White television

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mdanh2002

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Does anyone know what happens if a black and white television manufactured in USA (presumably supporting only NTSC) tunes into a PAL channel? Would I still be able to watch the picture in black and white and hear the audio (e.g. normal functionality), or would the picture be scrolling and distorted? What about the audio?

Various Google search yields different results. Some say that PAL is compatible with older black and white sets while some others say I will get a scrolling (but recognizable pictures). My research reveals that early black and white TVs had 405 lines, those manufactured later in the US had 525 lines (NTSC) and others had 625 lines (PAL). But I could not find any conclusive results about the backwards compatibility with PAL signals.

Any advice is appreciated.
 
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American and European channel frequencies, horizontal and vertical frequencies and the audio sub-carrier frequency are different.
So it might produce nothing.
 
Whether or how well it works likely depends somewhat on the design of a particular TV.

And even if an NTSC TV does display something from a PAL signal, I suspect it would be less than satisfactory for most people.

An option is to use a converter such as this to go from PAL to NTSC.

Edit: Just noticed that converter only works if the NTSC TV can work with 50Hz frame rate and that is unknown. You might have to go with a more expensive converter that converts 50Hz to 60Hz, and these are considerable more expensive.
 
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The frequencies for European and North American TVs are different. Good luck with the wrong TV in the wrong location.
A converter probably costs more than a TV because nobody buys a converter so they are expensive and are rare.
 
Does anyone know what happens if a black and white television manufactured in USA (presumably supporting only NTSC) tunes into a PAL channel? Would I still be able to watch the picture in black and white and hear the audio (e.g. normal functionality), or would the picture be scrolling and distorted? What about the audio?

Various Google search yields different results. Some say that PAL is compatible with older black and white SET while some others say I will get a scrolling (but recognizable pictures). My research reveals that early black and white TVs had 405 lines, those manufactured later in the US had 525 lines (NTSC) and others had 625 lines (PAL). But I could not find any conclusive results about the backwards compatibility with PAL signals.

Most of the worlds TV's will play either PAL or NTSC, even if in B&W - with the exception of American TV's - unless things have changed in recent years (perhaps so with flat screens?). American sets were always crippled to only work on 525/60 and NTSC.
 
I remember seeing awful UK TVs when they had only 405 lines spaced about "1 inch" apart! The US NTSC system was much better with 525 lines. The UK changed and improved the entire system which made many old TVs obsolete but the US didn't.

I think the UK also had the polarity backwards so that the full power of the transmitter produced white the same as is produced by static and interference, unlike the US NTSC system that has always had full power as black so you don't see most static and interference.

The UK also used vertical polarity of the TV antennas when everbody else had horizontal polarity so that reflections from tall buildings didn't cause ghosting.

The UK still drives on the wrong side of the road.
 
I remember seeing awful UK TVs when they had only 405 lines spaced about "1 inch" apart! The US NTSC system was much better with 525 lines. The UK changed and improved the entire system which made many old TVs obsolete but the US didn't.

Been the worlds first TV system obviously meant it wasn't as good as later ones. Much as America had the worlds poorest colour system, because they were there first.

While the UK may have made the old 405 sets obselete, with the superior 625 line PAL system, the 405 system carried on just the same for more than a couple of decades.

I think the UK also had the polarity backwards so that the full power of the transmitter produced white the same as is produced by static and interference, unlike the US NTSC system that has always had full power as black so you don't see most static and interference.

The 405 polarity was the opposite to the 625 one, like I said been first means that others improve on what you did.

The UK also used vertical polarity of the TV antennas when everbody else had horizontal polarity so that reflections from tall buildings didn't cause ghosting.

UHF uses a mixture of both, in order to provide maximum coverage - but there were never any ghosting problems due to VHF aerial polarity - horizontal may have some advantages, but so does vertical.

The UK still drives on the wrong side of the road.

Nope, we drive on the correct side :p

At least we have a sound reason for driving on the left, and if you check the figures a LOT of the world agrees and also drives on the left.
 
hi Nigel.
Thanks for setting out the facts to our Canadian cousin and nipping in the bud more of the 'old wives tales' from the venerable guru.:rolleyes:

Eric
 
Been the worlds first TV system obviously meant it wasn't as good as later ones.
Dont forget that pre-WW2 there was a trial of the 31 line (?) Baird electro-mechanical system vs the electronic 405 line EMI/Schoenberg (?) system, where each system was transmitted on alternate weeks from Alexandra Palace.
The war put an end to the trial and when service resumed in the late 1940s the EMI system was so obviously better that the Baird system was consigned to the history books.
(I hope my historical facts are correct!).

I remember seeing awful UK TVs when they had only 405 lines spaced about "1 inch" apart!
That would have been one of the early large screen TVs there AG?
405 lines on a 1" spacing would be about 33feet, (10 metres in new money).
AG you are truly the Master of Exageration, I salute you.:D

JimB
 
The NTSC (never the same colour) system has not changed since it was designed a long time ago but fairly new and brand new analog TVs do not have a "tint" or "automatic tint switch" (that makes everything a flesh colour) control anymore. Usually the colours are perfect today.
 
Nope, we drive on the correct side :p

At least we have a sound reason for driving on the left, and if you check the figures a LOT of the world agrees and also drives on the left.
Is that so you have your sword on the side of the person coming at you, and that the use of the horse whip with the right hand doesn't interfere with approaching traffic?;)

But seriously, I shift better with my right hand then my left.
 
Is that so you have your sword on the side of the person coming at you, and that the use of the horse whip with the right hand doesn't interfere with approaching traffic?;)

More the sword than anything else.

But seriously, I shift better with my right hand then my left.

That's only because you're used to it - personally I think it's more important to have your best hand on the steering wheel controlling the car :D

I've ridden motorbikes with gears either side (and with reversed direction as well), it really makes very little difference - the only problem is forgetting which one you're riding :p

Incidently, what's with the weird American method of using a knife and fork?. Funnily enough, while I'm extremely right-handed, I eat left-handed (knife in my left), we call it 'keggy-handed' round here.
 
That too. But they do still build cars with primitive manual transmissions.
I hate getting behind a car that has a manual transmission. They speed up then slow down to change gears then speed up again then slow down again over and over. Usually when they change gears there is a puff of blue smoke.
They also stink because the teenager driver has removed the pollution controls.
 
I've seen a PAL source play on a Sony TV, 30 years ago. The picture was B&W and would roll. The vertical hold control was too far out of range to stop the scrolling.
 
At work their is only one guy who is older than me. By 1yr.

In this thread I'm about 9rs old. heheheheheheh:D
 
I have an old JVC television (color). At the back there is a switch for PAL/NTSC 3.58/NTSC 4.43/SECAM and a toggle button labeled SCR ADJ (I think it's short for SCROLL ADJUST). When operated in Singapore (PAL signal), the switch has to be left in PAL. If I put in NTSC 4.43, the picture would scroll in color but audio is correct. If I put it in NTSC 3.58, the picture would scroll in black and white and audio is just white noise. If the toggle button is on in NTSC mode with a PAL signal, then the scroll stops. For a PAL signal, the picture is watchable (with slightly wrong color) with NTSC 4.43 and scroll adjust on. So I believe some NTSC TVs may be able to handle PAL signal if the internal implementation caters for it.

Strangely the reception in this old TV is much stronger and sensitive than newer flat screen TVs. I am able to capture Indonesian/Malaysian channels with it. A new HD TV or cheap USB TV tuner would simple not even detect the station using autoscan.
 
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I hate getting behind a car that has a manual transmission. They speed up then slow down to change gears then speed up again then slow down again over and over. Usually when they change gears there is a puff of blue smoke.
They also stink because the teenager driver has removed the pollution controls.

Can't they drive over there?. Manual transmission is just as smooth as automatics, the only way to tell is that automatic drivers use the brakes a lot more.
 
Some Canadians drive with the brakes on all the time, maybe to "condition" the brake pads.

Only teenagers drive with a manual transmission. Sports cars sometimes have a manual transmission. Imported European cars frequently have a manual transmission.

My son had a Nissan car with a "variable automatic" transmission that used a big belt and variable diameter pulleys. It worked well.

Normal automatic transmissions in cars today have up to 6 forward gears plus lockup. The computer in the transmission communicates with the computer running the engine so that gear shifts are very smooth and are not noticeable.
 
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