omfg i hate Eagle

[dknguyen]

FOr our design project the prof wants us to use Eagle rather than OrCAD which I have. Let's forget that it would take me 15 minutes to do in OrCAD what the prof wants me to do and I have to go learn a new user interface which has proven to be the one of the most unwieldly things ever from the seeming lack of a component manager to keep track of all the components in the PCB, to the seemingly lack of hotkeys and indications of whether or not traces are actually properly connected in the schematic to the disjointed method in which component symbols and footprints have to be made to how you have to do a bunch of component copying between library and component to use prexisting footprints.

Now, the layout is generating a rat nest from the schematic WITH ERRORS. THere are extra ICs that have been deleted longer before and shouldn't be there and there are unconnected pins between components when they are clearly connected to each other on the schematic (and double connected on the schematic). Oh yeah, let's not forget how layout doesn't tell you what component you have selected on the schematic. How am I supposed to trust this software?

 

[mneary]

I've used Eagle for a while. If you post some files maybe one of us can help.

 

[Pommie]

It sounds like your board and schematic are out of sync. This can happen when you only open one or the other. I suggest deleting the board file and recreating it and then always have both files open at the same time. Did you get a warning to do with back annotation?

Edit, as well, on the board use the route command - not the wire command.

Mike.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

I'm not an eagle fan either, didn't like it.

 

[Gayan Soyza]

At earlier I was not a fan in EAGLE but after trying all the freewares & beta versions of PCB design softwarez on earth EAGLE gave me good results.

 

[aussiepoof]

I too hate Eagle... the tutorials at Sparkfun help, but still it's got to be the world's worst user interface.

I find ExpressPCB's UI fantastically easy and use it despite the proprietary nature of the storage format (i.e. not Gerber) I did a careful analysis of pricing from various Gerber compatible PCB shops vs ExpressPCB and couldn't find a compelling price difference that warranted the pain of learning Eagle.

My productivity in ExpressPCB outweighs any price difference anyway. I am also able to do single-sided prototype PCB's with it which is very useful.

Best PCB CAD I ever used was the old Protel on Windoze 3.1 Of course since Altium bought them they no longer provide the low-end product (i.e. basic PCB Schematic Capture+Layout) for a reasonable price... sigh.

P.

 

[dknguyen]

It sounds like your board and schematic are out of sync. This can happen when you only open one or the other. I suggest deleting the board file and recreating it and then always have both files open at the same time. Did you get a warning to do with back annotation?

Edit, as well, on the board use the route command - not the wire command.

Mike.

THe results I speak of are when the project has no board file and I generate a new one straight from the schematic, so no warnings. THe extra ICs and missing connections pop up in the original rat nest. I managed to get rid of the ICs by replacing them in the schematic and deleting them. BUt the missing connections I haven't been able to fix (deleting the connections and reconnecting them).

Yeah I figured out the route vs wire command after a while since the rat nest lines weren't going away (just like in OrCAD).

 

[Pommie]

I have never come across that. Can you post the schematic file?

Mike.

 

[dknguyen]

Kore-des-yo

 

[Pommie]

By using the show (the eye) command in the schematic I could see that pins 10 and 2 weren't connected. You can also see this by moving the chip in the schematic. Why they weren't connected I have no idea. I just deleted the section of the traces nearest the IC and reconnected and everything was fine.

Mike.

 

[dknguyen]

By using the show (the eye) command in the schematic I could see that pins 10 and 2 weren't connected. You can also see this by moving the chip in the schematic. Why they weren't connected I have no idea. I just deleted the section of the traces nearest the IC and reconnected and everything was fine.

Mike.

THat's just dumb. What on earth is supposed to happen if it's a major board?

 

[Pommie]

I haven't had that happen. Could you have modified the library files while they were in use and that somehow caused the problem. Having pins slightly of the grid in the library definition can cause these sort of problems.

Mike.

 

[Oznog]

Oh yeah I've had LOTS of trouble with traces not connecting- or sometimes connecting when you don't want them to- on the schematic. Putting a node down where 2 traces connect seems to make a guarantee they'll line up.

I found it's essential to grab the component and move it to see that all the traces move with it. Eventually these quirks of the interface become force of habit.

Checking the "errors" tab is a good idea. It'll tell you if a wire isn't connected. However, if there are 2 wires going to a pin and the pin isn't actually connected to the 2 wires then I don't think it'll be an error.

Also hate: at least on my version, it gives errors in terms of XY coordinates but failes to highlight the problem. So I've gotta move the cursor around and find that XY location.

 

[Ambient]

Like Oznog mentioned, I always move the parts around to make sure they are connected. Sometimes the wire will not connect unless you start at that part with it. I will have to check out ExpressPCB.

 

[mvs sarma]

dknguyen,
it is nothing to do with me you hating-- It is learning curve and our ability to accommodate ourselves to the circumstances and restrictions imposed-- you may say conditional clause-- perhaps neither your professor nor you will be permanently interested in the layout you might make in the Project. So, perhaps better accept it as a conditional project and after all we can successfully come out of anything. and we learn how to work under constrained situations.-- i look at it in this perspective.

 

[picbits]

I don't like Eagle either. I would rather use Corel Draw to design PCBs in.

I use a very simple PCB layout piece of software which lets me design PCBs in a tenth of the time of Eagle.

It doesn't do schematic to PCB, has limited error reporting and I get on perfectly with it.

Have a search for Sprint Layout - its so lacking in "advanced" features that its a joy to use (and its pretty cheap as well).

 

[3v0]

Make PINS visible in the schematic when making connections. The pins show up as circles. If you terminate your net inside the circle it connects. You only click ONCE to make a net connection. If you click once and the net has not terminated (moving mouse still draws net) the net has not been terminated. Clicking twice will terminate the net but without a connection. If you understand this you will not have problems with unconnected nets.

The ERC check will find unconnected pins and other errors.

Also hate: at least on my version, it gives errors in terms of XY coordinates but failes to highlight the problem. So I've gotta move the cursor around and find that XY location.

The new beta points to the error and draws a box around the problem when you click on an ERC error. The GUI in general is a lot more predicatable.

It is always easier to use the tool you know how to use. If you have a chip on your shoulder it makes it worse.

 

[Boncuk]

I hate Eagle

Hi dknguyen,

I really wonder why you hate Eagle. Eagle is software and you certainly know putting garbage in garbage will come out.

You must under no circumstances change grid sizes with odd numbers, e.g. changing from 0.1inch to 2.5mm the result will be unconnected pins. Changing to the equivalent value of exactly 2.54mm those errors won't occur.

There is an excellent tool within the schematic editor. It's name is ERC for elecrical rule check. Eagle is very accurate and will tell you each unconnected pin.

Even if they might look connected and there are just those 0.04mm missing there won't be a proper connection. Zooming the part with the missing connection you will see that it is actually not connected. Also, as mentioned already use the eye symbol to check each net you have before creating a board. Of course you can see on the board each part including the library you selected it from, the part's name and value etc.

Other than many other PCB design programs Eagle gives you the opportunity to smash parts and move name and value to a position where it's easy to read.

If there is one part missing in one of your libraries which you urgently need, don't hesitate to email me the data sheet including package information. A day later you'll have what you need so desperately.

I've been using Eagle right from the beginning DOS-based and have now v. 3.55 and 4.16. There is nothing much to learn about Eagle and it's done within an hour.

One complaint I have about Eagle: It has a bad autorouter which tends to surround itself and using a fine grid it will draw wierd looking traces and complain about "angle errors" using the DRC (design rule check) produced by CadSoft. I use the autorouter to eliminate the confusing rats nest temporarily and ripup the hole thing after I've reorganized the parts for shortest possible connections. After that I route manually using the proper grid size.

Generally a grid size of 0.635mm (0.025inch) is sufficient for general purpose boards. If MCUs and other ICs are involved the grid size should be 0.3175mm (0.0125inch). Using a smaller grid size like 0.15875mm the display will round to the nearest value for four decimals indicating 0.1788, but internally will use exactly that grid.

I've tried many PCB editors and none was so easy to learn like Eagle. CadSoft could put in some updated libraries from time to make it easier for Eagle users.

Here is a sample of a library which I made for one member of this forum. May be you can use it to. The package is very accurate to within 1/1000mm and it took me just 30 minutes to make it. If this file type is not allowed I'll zip it and post it tomorrow.

Email hjzelec@freenet.de for help using Eagle.

Kind regards

Hans

 

[Pommie]

Boncuk,

Well said. I think that, end of the day, eagle is free and can produce commercial quality PCBs. It has it's quirks but once you get familiar with it, it does a good job.

Mike.

 

[HerbertMunch]

Eagle is a despicable product.
The interface is infuriating. The lack of the ability to copy more than one thing at a time is just plain stupid.

The eagle spanner tool is diabolical!

The problem is, I think that all the PCB editors are **** in some way or another.
At the height of my frustration, I have been tempted to go to AutoCAD. Nice user interface, but no electronics specifics (back anotation, etc).

Express PCB behaves like you’d expect from a windows program. The problem is that it’s too basic.

I’m still looking for the perfect PCB editor.