new computers

[mstechca]

if you continue in electronics and want to interface your circuit(s) to a computer, I suggest that you do not buy brand new computers. Why? because they lack things.

Here's a scenario to show you what I mean:

I have a computer in my house that I still use. It is a P1. The good thing about it is that the motherboard has ISA slots, PCI slots, parallel port, 2 serial ports, a PS2 port, and two USB ports. This allows me flexibility when I decide to make a circuit that interfaces with the computer. Of course the only bad thing about it is that I could use a faster processor, but for most applications, even a 486 is fine :lol:

My friend has recently bought two new computers. A laptop, and a Desktop. The laptop has a 1.4Ghz processor, and the desktop has a 733Mhz processor. My processor is way lower than 733Mhz.

Anyways, I look all over his two computers (except for the insides), and there is not a single parallel port on any computer. I think there is just one serial port on his 733Mhz desktop.

Question is, why would they provide a serial port instead of a parallel port, when a parallel port is faster?

And another question is, why are computer manufacturers FORCING us or at least trying to force us to use USB ports even if we have hardware that supported parallel and serial ports?

Are these computer manufacturers trying to make the landfill the tallest thing in the world????

these manufacturers must not be environmentally friendly.

also, I don't see the gameport on the new computers. Why don't they just leave the ports on?

and I read in another thread that a user saw in his CMOS setup options for the serial port, but the serial port is not in the computer. So if the computer manufacturers are STUPID enough to leave the serial port options in the computer, why are they STUPID enough to remove the physical port?

these people don't make any sense to me!

 

[Someone Electro]

They dont make devices for there prots anymore.Evrything is going to USB.

 

[theinfamousbob]

Check the mobo for the header connections....most PCs just have a 16 pin header for gameports anymore....

*sigh*

-Infamous

 

[Someone Electro]

Or meaby check the motherboards manual.There they describe evry conector and jumper you can find on it.You may even find a usable feture that you didnt know before.

 

[i_build_stuff]

It's not like anybody is trying to make their boards hard to talk to.

Parallel / serial ports might be super-easy to connect stuff to, if you're breadboarding simple gate-level projects, but they kinda suck for more complicated designs that you want to sell. Not only are USB plugs smaller (and cheaper), with less lines in the cables, but they have a LOT more features. Not to mention, the average computer gives you about 10 of them.

Also, for the average design engineer, it's not really any harder to throw in a USB chip, or a microcontroller that supports USB, instead of a parallel driver or USART. Similarly with PCI slots, you can get chips with that already integrated into them.

BTW, modern motherboards usually do still have the older type ports (maybe not laptops though). If not, you can get a PCI card with 2 of each for about $20.

 

[mstechca]

Parallel / serial ports might be super-easy to connect stuff to, if you're breadboarding simple gate-level projects, but they kinda suck for more complicated designs that you want to sell.

they don't necessairily suck.

Not only are USB plugs smaller (and cheaper), with less lines in the cables, but they have a LOT more features. Not to mention, the average computer gives you about 10 of them.

I heard that with USB, data is only sent through two wires, and alot more decoding is required. This also requires higher memory space in the external circuit just for decoding, AND this overhead of decoding can reduce speed, especially if it is executed every time.

Also, for the average design engineer, it's not really any harder to throw in a USB chip, or a microcontroller that supports USB, instead of a parallel driver or USART. Similarly with PCI slots, you can get chips with that already integrated into them.

It is when you have someone like me who does not want to upgrade the O/S from Win95.

If not, you can get a PCI card with 2 of each for about $20.

So this is how these computer manufacturers make money... Rip out the old ports, and put in a USB port, and then SELL A CARD to install the ports. This is ridicuous!

Or meaby check the motherboards manual.There they describe evry conector and jumper you can find on it.You may even find a usable feture that you didnt know before.

I don't use manuals. In fact, I know every feature on my motherboard, AND believe it or not, I solder my jumper connection and remove the jumper and the pins, so that I don't leave a jumper sitting in the same spot for years, and I will have an extra jumper to play with.

Check the mobo for the header connections....most PCs just have a 16 pin header for gameports anymore....

Assuming my friend's motherboard has this header, where can I buy the connector that converts the header to a gameport socket?

 

[theinfamousbob]

Assuming my friend's motherboard has this header, where can I buy the connector that converts the header to a gameport socket?

I'm actually not sure...I've seen them before and I think that new motherboards come with them in the box....(haven't purchased a new mobo....ever. This one's from my school. They deemed it "dead". That's another story though.


Try this if that search is fruitless:

**broken link removed**

It might not be the best, but it's something.

Good luck.

-Infamous

 

[olly_k]

Parallel / serial ports might be super-easy to connect stuff to, if you're breadboarding simple gate-level projects, but they kinda suck for more complicated designs that you want to sell.

they don't necessairily suck.

Not for DIY projects maybe, but from a commercial point of view, they generally suck.

Not only are USB plugs smaller (and cheaper), with less lines in the cables, but they have a LOT more features. Not to mention, the average computer gives you about 10 of them.

I heard that with USB, data is only sent through two wires, and alot more decoding is required. This also requires higher memory space in the external circuit just for decoding, AND this overhead of decoding can reduce speed, especially if it is executed every time.

Well that speed will still be a heck of a lot faster than a serial and much cheaper / less cumbersome than parallel!

Also, for the average design engineer, it's not really any harder to throw in a USB chip, or a microcontroller that supports USB, instead of a parallel driver or USART. Similarly with PCI slots, you can get chips with that already integrated into them.

It is when you have someone like me who does not want to upgrade the O/S from Win95.

I am afraid you, being a user of win95 and into interfacing your own projects to an IBM compatable machine are overwelmingly in the minority, and large manufacturers cannot afford to care about the minority!

If not, you can get a PCI card with 2 of each for about $20.

So this is how these computer manufacturers make money... Rip out the old ports, and put in a USB port, and then SELL A CARD to install the ports. This is ridicuous!

No, it is not ridiculous - This is how technology moves on! get a grip and accept it!

Or meaby check the motherboards manual.There they describe evry conector and jumper you can find on it.You may even find a usable feture that you didnt know before.

I don't use manuals. In fact, I know every feature on my motherboard, AND believe it or not, I solder my jumper connection and remove the jumper and the pins, so that I don't leave a jumper sitting in the same spot for years, and I will have an extra jumper to play with.

So? just because you don't use a manual for your computer doesn't mean to say you shouldn't use it for your mates computer!

Check the mobo for the header connections....most PCs just have a 16 pin header for gameports anymore....

Assuming my friend's motherboard has this header, where can I buy the connector that converts the header to a gameport socket?

I recently went to a computer shop to buy a header for the extra USB sockets on my mobo, Whilst not being able to provide me with one specific to my mobo, Hedid haaave one that was connected slightly differently. Now, because I had KEPT MY MOTHERBOARD MANUAL I was able to pull the wires out the header and re-arrange them and bingo! I have now got two extra USB ports on the back of my machine! - Oh which I find a hell of a lot more usefull than the serial / parallel port!!!!!!!
So go to your local computer shop or look on ebay

 

[mstechca]

No, it is not ridiculous - This is how technology moves on! get a grip and accept it!

so technology moves on, and people will have to throw their 10-year old printer out and buy a new one to continue printing???

What happens if several years later, all a computer has is a fancy USB port that doesn't work with today's USB devices? Are we going to throw them out too?

I must say, you love a nasty environment if you like the way technology moves on.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I must say, you love a nasty environment if you like the way technology moves on.

Why are you using Win95?, what was wrong with your abacus?.

 

[olly_k]

I must say, you love a nasty environment if you like the way technology moves on.

Why are you using Win95?, what was wrong with your abacus?.

It hasn't got a parallel port!

 

[bloody-orc]

:evil: you DON'T have to buy a new printer when it is "old" . if you want to keep your reaking old matrix printer and print with that them be my gest and do it using the computer you were using woth that "10 years ago". you DON'T have to buy a new computer all the time. use old ones if you love them so much and stop the freaking whyning! :evil:

i don't know what would i do if i still have to use Jukus and 486's and use russian electronics components that hardly ever work. i couldn't play with robots. all RF things are only used by military and USA's richest. What would the life be like huh?

if you want to use com ports and LPT's then use old computers. and old hardware and al other old stuff (flopys etc). but if you want to go along with new stuff then just go! learn to use new stuff and be happy with the things you got. it aint really that hard you know...

Thank yuo for listening (reading) what i have to say and sorry for all those spelling and gramar messages...

 

[Styx]

You can still buy PCI parallel port cards and serial port cards and they are being continually developed. I recently bought a PIC RS422 optically isolated (galvanically for power) PCI card, yes that is 422 and not 232 but my point is clear


as to why scrap //el of serial, parallel has always had the problem of cross-talk. YES you can trasmit alot more data (one byte per trasmit cycle as opose to one bit) BUT with increase trasfer rates it just does not work

The reason ATA (PATA) had to be redeveloped to allow SATA waa because of this. PATA had a limit of 133 standard with propper shielding!!! anything more and data corruption.

So it had to go for Serial where you do not have such a limitation!!!

The same is true for Parallel.

Also IF you have 20 devices what is easier to deal with USB,Serial,Parallel?

However dificault coding for USB is (just started doing a bit with PYTHON, it is HELL!!!!!) it has its advantages and they drastically outweight the cons

 

[DirtyLude]

Why are you using Win95?, what was wrong with your abacus?.

Excellent point.

Geez, welcome to the year 2000. Wait until you have to upgrade your video card, cuz it's all PCI-e and no longer AGP interfaces, now, Can't upgrade your processor because the socket isn't supported anymore. Can't use your old memory, cuz processors now require DDR2....

Technology moves forward. Why would they spend the money to put DB9 serial on motherboards when less than 1% of their users will use them and you can buy a USB/serial interface for $15.00. There will always be interfaces for old technology if you want to still use that old parallel port printer.

 

[theinfamousbob]

Why are you using Win95?, what was wrong with your abacus?.

I actually have an abacus...I don't ever use it though.

I think I'm going to go glue a serial port header on it for fun and then complain to a random manufacturer that I can't get their modem to work and that I've tried everything. :twisted:

and randomly - 100th post....(I know I'm kinda stretching here, but I figured I'd make a note....not that anyone will care :lol: )

 

[Alex_rcpilot]

they don't necessairily suck.

They don't necessarily suck for you.Coz you are the DIYer who doesn't want to bother using more complecated ports than LPT or RS232.

I heard that with USB, data is only sent through two wires, and alot more decoding is required. This also requires higher memory space in the external circuit just for decoding, AND this overhead of decoding can reduce speed, especially if it is executed every time.

A fullspeed USB transmission supports nearly 1 mega bytes per second EXCLUDING the protocol decoding cost,isn't that fast enough for you?Or use a high speed USB transmission at 40 times the speed.The "excluded" protocol cost contains CRC checks,which make the data acquisition MUCH more reliable than parallel and RS-232 transmission.Think tiwce before making your sensation.

Also, for the average design engineer, it's not really any harder to throw in a USB chip, or a microcontroller that supports USB, instead of a parallel driver or USART. Similarly with PCI slots, you can get chips with that already integrated into them.

It is when you have someone like me who does not want to upgrade the O/S from Win95.

Nigel made his good point which I wouldn't repeat.

If not, you can get a PCI card with 2 of each for about $20.

So this is how these computer manufacturers make money... Rip out the old ports, and put in a USB port, and then SELL A CARD to install the ports. This is ridicuous!

Thinking your way,it is ridiculous.Because you can't live without the old ports.However,don't expect everybody who buys a computer is a DIYer like you.Go to a computer market and take a look yourself.Most of those guys don't even know what those ports and slots over the mainboards are.There're nurses,clerks,uncle chess,HDTV fans etc.How many of them would care whether there is an LPT at the back of there computer?They don't even use peripherals!And look at those kids with all sorts of joysticks.I have two myself.The older one is a Logtech Wingman with gameport interface.I always hate the wide cable,and it's not really easy to align and plug the connector at the back when I'm in the front.Oh footplates!I need a footplate for rudder control when I'm playing flight sims.If I want both the gameport-based joystick and footplate installed,where do I find the second gameport?See?You are the minority.Think about why they name the new stuff UNIVERSAL Serial Bus.Because every peripheral manufacturer is tending to build his devices following this standard,and computer users won't need to think too much about the ports they don't recognize.The goal for implementing USB standard is for maximum user convenience.And the price is,of course,the sacrifice of brian work of developers.

 

[i_build_stuff]

I would suggest that you get some USB-supporting microcontrollers (Microchip has some, IIRC), and write yourself a little set of routines to talk to that port. While you're at it, it might be a good idea to do the same for Ethernet and anything else you'll want to plug into.

After you figure that stuff out one time, it will never be a problem again; just grab a chip and include your library to get instant USB.