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Need slap in the face with power ergulator IC

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goofeedad

New Member
I realize I asked for it but, please be kind.

I have been searching the web, datasheets, online tech help from suppliers, forums (thanks all) and pretty much every where that seemed to look like a possibility to get some ideas. So as many of us know, that will often freeze your brain rather than lead you somewhere. I am sure that I am making this MUCH harder than it needs to be. I don't want to use transformers, it makes too much heat and would greatly increase the size and weight of my project.

To put it simply, I need to convert 110VAC to 36VAC. At this point, I am not asking for high tolerences, perfect sinusoidal waves, or any parameter or restriction one might put on to warn me about.

I am willing to try "almost" any idea. I would like (Sorry for the spoon feeding request) some circuit diagrams. I'm looking toward triacs, power regs and switching supplies at this point but not finding the results I was hoping for.
 
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goofeedad

New Member
Use a transformer.
CRUD! I just re-read my original post and I didn't state I don't want a transformer. Got one, I'm running 4 seperate circuits that each draw 0.66A. It gets too hot "for my needs", I don't want to use 4 seperate transformers to keep the heat down, it increases my weight and total size too much, not to mention that I'm hoping for a circuit board resolution, power reg, triac, switching supply for example.

Sorry I didn't state this, hope it doesn't stop the replys. I was just very tired.

Hey, thanks though.
 

tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
what exactly are you running that takes 36 VAC at .66 amps?
 

goofeedad

New Member
what exactly are you running that takes 36 VAC at .66 amps?
I have asked for help before on this project and I don't want to saturate the forum but here goes. I am powering several piezo transducer driver circuits that need an input voltage of 36VAC. I already have them up and running, I'm just not happy with the heat the transformer puts out or the size and weight of the transformer. Their fairly small circuit boards approx. 3"x3" with minimal components, it has what looks like a power regulator (can't find "C3835" in my data books) at the transducer connection that's heat sunk to the transducers hardware. If anyone wants to actually see one with the spec sheet it's at STEMINC - SMUTK1660RS111 - Mist Generation Kit - 1.66 MHz, 350cc/Hr
 

blueroomelectronics

Well-Known Member
Transformers are going to be your most efficient solution for 120VAC to 36VAC. Toroidal transformers are more efficient than laminated iron core but also much more expensive.
Toroidal transformers are more efficient than the cheaper laminated E-I types for a similar power level. Other advantages compared to E-I types, include smaller size (about half), lower weight (about half), less mechanical hum (making them superior in audio amplifiers), lower exterior magnetic field (about one tenth), low off-load losses (making them more efficient in standby circuits), single-bolt mounting, and greater choice of shapes. The main disadvantages are higher cost and limited power capacity (see "Classification" above).
Contact the manufacturer and see if the units can use a DC supply, then you could buy a switch mode supply.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer
 
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grenoble

New Member
STEMINC - SMUTK1660RS111 - Mist Generation Kit - 1.66 MHz, 350cc/Hr

I realize I asked for it but, please be kind.

I have been searching the web, datasheets, online tech help from suppliers, forums (thanks all) and pretty much every where that seemed to look like a possibility to get some ideas. So as many of us know, that will often freeze your brain rather than lead you somewhere. I am sure that I am making this MUCH harder than it needs to be. I don't want to use transformers, it makes too much heat and would greatly increase the size and weight of my project.

To put it simply, I need to convert 110VAC to 36VAC. At this point, I am not asking for high tolerences, perfect sinusoidal waves, or any parameter or restriction one might put on to warn me about.

I am willing to try "almost" any idea. I would like (Sorry for the spoon feeding request) some circuit diagrams. I'm looking toward triacs, power regs and switching supplies at this point but not finding the results I was hoping for.
---------------------------------------
You can find the power supply for the STEMINC - SMUTK1660RS111 - Mist Generation Kit - 1.66 MHz, 350cc/Hr at www.jameco.com (JAMECO) and the part number is: 104417.
Also, click on the following link to see the layout of the board, how to connect the water level sensor and also the variable resistor (or if you want maximum output you can just solder a bridge between the two points).
You can also see some details about how the height of the water column should be maintained for best performance.
http://www.steminc.com/piezo/driver.asp Also click on the layout link inside that same page.
This mist generation kit works great!
Cheers!
 

goofeedad

New Member
---------------------------------------
You can find the power supply for the STEMINC - SMUTK1660RS111 - Mist Generation Kit - 1.66 MHz, 350cc/Hr at www.jameco.com (JAMECO) and the part number is: 104417.
Also, click on the following link to see the layout of the board, how to connect the water level sensor and also the variable resistor (or if you want maximum output you can just solder a bridge between the two points).
You can also see some details about how the height of the water column should be maintained for best performance.
STEMINC - PIEZOELECTRIC CERAMICS - MIST GENERATION KIT Also click on the layout link inside that same page.
This mist generation kit works great!
Cheers!
Yes, it works great and the support is outstanding. I'm just haing a hard time wrapping my head around the possibility that I have to have 4 transformers and fans to cool them.

Thanks, I already have the 104417 transformer. Good transformer but heavy and medium sized, about 2x3x3.
 

tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
Obviously its a DC circuit that just has a set of rectifiers on it to change the AC to DC. Given a 36 VAC input will give 50 DC peak I would think it could run off of a 48 volt DC switching power supply wit no problems.

In my line of work a 2" x 3" x 3" transformer is very small. 2' x 3' x 3' is mot uncommon for me to work around!

Or Ideally just suck it up and put a bigger transformer on it and remotely locate it. It will run cooler at that load.
 
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goofeedad

New Member
Obviously its a DC circuit that just has a set of rectifiers on it to change the AC to DC. Given a 36 VAC input will give 50 DC peak I would think it could run off of a 48 volt DC switching power supply wit no problems.

In my line of work a 2" x 3" x 3" transformer is very small. 2' x 3' x 3' is mot uncommon for me to work around!

Or Ideally just suck it up and put a bigger transformer on it and remotely locate it. It will run cooler at that load.
OK! Another pair of eyes as they say. I never looked at it from that point of view. Bypass the rectifier (so to speak). I will get right on check for the rect. out voltage and work from that point.

Thank you SO much for the use of your point of view.

Also, yeah the trans is not big compared to alot of others but, for my little project it's pretty large and heavy.
 

goofeedad

New Member
Transformers are going to be your most efficient solution for 120VAC to 36VAC. Toroidal transformers are more efficient than laminated iron core but also much more expensive.
Contact the manufacturer and see if the units can use a DC supply, then you could buy a switch mode supply.
Transformer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thank you, I don't really understand the toroidal concept (not the concept of winding transfering inductance whole thing). I went to the site you suggested and at first look the toroids that are shown don't have enough windings to do any voltage changes or even any secodaries. Perhaps I didn't check far enough into the site or even the sugestion but, I will. Any reduction in the criteria that you mentioned would be a great benefit.

Thanks.
 

Sceadwian

Banned
Toroids are commonly used as power inductors, there are toroidal transformers though, personally I've never seen one except for some small RF baluns. But their shape concentrates the magnetic flux better than any other shape excluding a pot form, which is basically just a toroid with a case around it.
 

Hero999

Banned
That surprises me that you've never seen a toroidal transformer before. Here's a picture.
 

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Sceadwian

Banned
I don't take apart many medical devices Hero =)
 

Mr RB

Well-Known Member
Why not just buy a low profile switchmode supply? It's fully built and you can get 36v DC versions. You just connect a mains lead. It's also fully short circuit protected and regulated voltage, both are real good things.

Here's an example;
New Page 59
 

Sceadwian

Banned
He said in post #5 that he needs AC.
 
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tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
Actually I dont think he does need an AC source. Its a high frequency driver for a piezo disk. It has to run on DC after rectification.
I have not found a power supply yet that could not take a direct DC input right after or before the rectifiers if the right voltage was used. Computer power supplies run just fine on 150 -180 VDC. So do CFL's! And every other device that uses DC power derived from an AC source.
If he skips the AC input part all he needs is a DC voltage probably around 45 - 48 volts.
 
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