Microchip vs atmel

[Macka]

Hi,

I need to choose between a Microchip 16F88 and an Atmel ATTiny2313

I dont have a programmer, the only language i can use is BASIC.

Can the ATTiny2313 be programmed using BASIC? ( I have only been able to find C so far, so Im starting to think there isnt a BASIC compiler thats compatible)

Is it worth paying the money for the 16F88 programmer or is it better i just use the parallel programmer for the ATTiny2313?

are there any drawbacks to using the ATTiny2313? (im using making a POV display containing 8 LED's

Thankyou

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Either would be fine, with assembler, C, and BASIC presumably available for both of them, and PIC programmers are pretty simple as well.

 

[Macka]

It's not so much the complecity of the programmer, its more the amount of money it will cost to make it, from what i have seen all that you need to program the Atmel is a parrallel port a cople of wires and a few resistors and a 5V supply, where the Microchip programmer has many more components, needs 15V and requires some IC's

Also, as I understand it the code has to be compiled differently for different brands and models due to their architecture, so I presume I couldnt use MikroBasic to generate code for the Atmel.

So Im still not sure which i should go for, this is the first time for me to use anything but a PICAXE so im not sure about weighing up my options...

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

It's not so much the complecity of the programmer, its more the amount of money it will cost to make it, from what i have seen all that you need to program the Atmel is a parrallel port a cople of wires and a few resistors and a 5V supply,

Pretty much the same for an LVP (Low Voltage Programmable) PIC.

where the Microchip programmer has many more components, needs 15V and requires some IC's

Depends on the programmer you build.

Also, as I understand it the code has to be compiled differently for different brands and models due to their architecture, so I presume I couldnt use MikroBasic to generate code for the Atmel.

Yes, both are completely different.

So Im still not sure which i should go for, this is the first time for me to use anything but a PICAXE so im not sure about weighing up my options...

Like I said, either would do the job - it's really a personal choice, PIC's are by far the most popular, but there's nothing wrong with AVR's - just that PIC's have been about for far longer.

 

[bryan1]

It's not so much the complecity of the programmer, its more the amount of money it will cost to make it, from what i have seen all that you need to program the Atmel is a parrallel port a cople of wires and a few resistors and a 5V supply, where the Microchip programmer has many more components, needs 15V and requires some IC's

Also, as I understand it the code has to be compiled differently for different brands and models due to their architecture, so I presume I couldnt use MikroBasic to generate code for the Atmel.

So Im still not sure which i should go for, this is the first time for me to use anything but a PICAXE so im not sure about weighing up my options...

A few points in the above quote contradict each other like 'its more the amount of money it will cost to make' 'using mikrobasic' Mikro basic aint cheap to start with. Now go checkout oshonsoft basic if your cash strapped and they have a schematic there for programmers, even Nigel's site has links to programmer schematic's.

Personally I've gone for pic's and one of the best investments I made was buying an ICD2. Either way mate make your choice and go for it.

Cheers Bryan

 

[Macka]

Ok, I decided I will go with the PICs and have sampled 3. It means I will have to build a "proper programmer", but hey, I couldnt find a Basic compiler for the Atmel, otherwise I would have gone for that.

@Bryan, yeah, I saw the price, but I havent seen anything telling me I have to register, and I havent seen anything telling me the advantages of registering, and as I understand it the software only has some slightly crippled functions, but for the most part will do what I want, which is to compile my programs, I think Ill need to use another piece of software to do the programming, because I dont think i will be able to make a cheap USB programmer, not that I have seen any schematics for one.


Thankyou for your help

Off topic:
Where abouts in the adelaide hills do you live?

 

[bryan1]

Off topic:
Where abouts in the adelaide hills do you live?

Kanmantoo on a farm totally of the grid and luvin it

 

[donniedj]

Why be polar? Why be dependent? Why be partial?

Why not learn to use both?
Why not be independent of one cost and one availability?
Why not be flexible?

Worth paying the money for a programmer? Sounds as if you see yourself only dealing with one chip in perpertuity. You know once you get a decent programmer, it covers the span of majority of the controllers of either manufacture. I programmer is not a perishable, its an investment.

 

[Sceadwian]

A hobbyist will be best served chosing one and only one chip to get really good at rather than splitting the very different implemenations of an essentially common architecture. I myself chose AVR, there are many things I use them for which they excel in their simplicity and straight forward architecture with their base models (some of their more advanced once get a little tricky with handling peripheral features) PICs have similiar advantages (such as async timers) and problems such as register weirdness.

 

[Macka]

well, for now i only do plan on dealing with the 1 chip, after im more comfortable with using MCU's i plan to expand, but really, for the time being, im after a cheap programmer to make a project, and which i can use for some of my other simple projects.

I dunno, I think it is a good idea to get a feel for other chips, but not too soon.

 

[dratomic]

Hello, just another viewpoint from Dr. Atomic

Pretty much the same for an LVP (Low Voltage Programmable) PIC.



Depends on the programmer you build.



Yes, both are completely different.



Like I said, either would do the job - it's really a personal choice, PIC's are by far the most popular, but there's nothing wrong with AVR's - just that PIC's have been about for far longer.

But if you're looking for sheer power and a huge source code base then the venerable old 8051 family can't be beat (just my opinion). Atmel and a host of other companies make a wide variety of microcontrollers that have many built in peripherals. The cores are code compatible with most instructions available accross families with added instructions to handle the added functions. There are assemblers, compilers, cross-compilers for many languages ect... And a lot of them are free. And pretty advanced to boot.

Now I'm not putting down PIC's, AVR's or anyone else. I've just been a fan of the 8051 family since the 70's and they are pretty easy to use besides. There is even a single clock per instruction version that can give you an effective speed of 99mhz!!! Blah, blah, blah, I know. But they are worth considering. And the ISP (In system Programmable) versions make development with super simple hardware a breeze since you can finish the hardware construction and not have to fool around with sockets and other sources of problems involved with plugging and unplugging components.

Intel even did a version of basic that runs from internal ROM/EPROM/EEPROM memory. There is even a port of this original basic just for the newer CMOS versions of the 8051 that takes into consideration the minor structural differences in the chips. Let me know and I'd be happy to provide you with an image (ROM) file to burn into one. There are even versions of the 8051 that bring the external memory lines out on seperate pins so you don't lose ports adding more memory for bigger projects. At **broken link removed** they even show how to interface an IDE HDD to one without a lot of external chipage. They use an 8051 version to make an MP3 player. They sell a small inexpensive 8051 development system that make a great testbed for all sorts of projects and are nice enough to provide 50 I/O pins for various hardware configurations. And a basic system monitor to program it via the serial port.

And as for up to date microcontrollers I just received some ATMEL versions with built in USB ports. So there is a wide selection to chose from. And the onboard memory is skyrocketing. A/D's, PWM, RS-232 ect..... All built in. I've even talked to some folks that have programmed their microcontrollers to emulate PIC's and AVR's for simulating across different platforms. I hope this helps a bit. Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YoungScientistsClub for more information. I try to help folks an a $0 budget get parts for free and run a local club for low income kids that supplies parts for their projects for free out of my own pocket. I operate it and our philosophy is on the introduction page. There is information and some software and I'll post more upon request.

 

[Macka]

wow, thats a lot of info, and very interesting too. sounds like the chip might be overkill for my project though (its just a POV device).

I had a quick look on your site, and it looks pretty good, so i signed up for an account

Thanks for the info.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

wow, thats a lot of info, and very interesting too. sounds like the chip might be overkill for my project though (its just a POV device).

The 8051's are a perfectly fine micro-controller, but a bit 'old technology', and their numbers are high because they are made by various manufacturers, not just the one (like MicroChip PIC and Atmel AVR). They are also probably more micro-processor than micro-controller?, as they can have external memory etc.

You might notice loads of posts asking about 8051 problems?, most of these are from India and such places, presumably where they are still using very old equipment in their universities?.

 

[mramos1]

Andrew, check out bastoc.com I think RVKBASIC does the tiny2313.

 

[Macka]

Andrew, check out bastoc.com I think RVKBASIC does the tiny2313.

OK, cool, i'll look at that, although at this stage i dont plan on chaning the PIC for my current project, but for my next project i will give it a go.

Thankyou

@ Nigel, to be honest I havent seen any posts like that, not that I have been looking for them, ive just been searching for 16F88 data since i decided to go with that. BTW, does your IC programmer software handle 16F88's? i couldnt see it in the list so i assume no.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

@ Nigel, to be honest I havent seen any posts like that, not that I have been looking for them, ive just been searching for 16F88 data since i decided to go with that. BTW, does your IC programmer software handle 16F88's? i couldnt see it in the list so i assume no.

The 16F88 is a fine device, very full of 'extras', but it's not a chip I ever added to WinPicProg - I did add the 16F819, which is a fairly similar chip that came out before the 16F88.

 

[ajay_bhargav]

I love atmel.. but i am not saying i don't like MicroChip

 

[mvs sarma]

Hi,

I need to choose between a Microchip 16F88 and an Atmel ATTiny2313

I dont have a programmer, the only language i can use is BASIC.

Can the ATTiny2313 be programmed using BASIC? ( I have only been able to find C so far, so Im starting to think there isnt a BASIC compiler thats compatible)

Is it worth paying the money for the 16F88 programmer or is it better i just use the parallel programmer for the ATTiny2313?

are there any drawbacks to using the ATTiny2313? (im using making a POV display containing 8 LED's

Thankyou

Bascom-avr 2.61 is freely downloadable and the demo version works well upto 2KB- perhaps serves your needs

 

[boxer4]

I'm curious. We need a poll:

* Atmel AVR?
* Microchip PIC? (and scenix I suppose)
* Motorola HC11 and relatives?
* Intel 8051 and relatives?
* Other? (Zilog Z80s, Intel x86, Motorola 68K, MIPS, ARM, and other cheaters)

Between AVR and PIC, and having tried both out, I much prefer AVR's classic design. But I actually finished a complete project with a PIC and not with AVR yet, so still slightly biased on which is "better"...

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I'm curious. We need a poll:

* Atmel AVR?
* Microchip PIC? (and scenix I suppose)
* Motorola HC11 and relatives?
* Intel 8051 and relatives?
* Other? (Zilog Z80s, Intel x86, Motorola 68K, MIPS, ARM, and other cheaters)

Between AVR and PIC, and having tried both out, I much prefer AVR's classic design. But I actually finished a complete project with a PIC and not with AVR yet, so still slightly biased on which is "better"...

Try searching the forum, a similar poll was done ages ago.

The PIC was the run away winner!, with AVR in second place.