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medium sized pk3 rant!! & ICD3(pile of poo)

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ghostman11

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ok first off quick run down.....i was given a ICD3 to do a noobs perspective review on by Farnel.
i got it unpacked and then spent days trying to get it to do something!!!! it wanted to download new firmware but couldnt connect to the server. it didnt like any config bit settings i gave it. it didnt like not being externaly powered, on and on the list went and i spent hours on the phone with farnel trying to get it sorted so i could meet there reveiw deadline! finaly i got it to splutter into a vague resemblance of life and it connected to a simple target test board they had sent.
15mins into a debug routine i was told to follow, it went toes up DEAD!!! the little test board that comes with the ICD3 to test if its actualy working (can you belive they have to send a test board with theese things just so you know the thing works!!) the little board confirmed that the ICD3 had apparently keeled over beyond repair and gave the sad little message please contact your local stockist for SOR (sale or return!).
in all honesty for the 15 mins it actualy lived i didnt find a single thing it could do better than a pk2! except obviously it can program the new stuff, but i couldnt find any not a single advantage over the pk2 for debug :(
anyway farnel told me they would send another unit and just to send the broken one back, as i hadnt paid for the thing i was tempted to say yes but told them not to bother as far as i was concerned i had seen enough to do a reveiw :mad::mad::mad: but if they wanted i would return the faulty unit (they didnt want it back so its binned).
amongst all this going on my new chips arrived (more on them in a min) so i thought about it and ordered a pk3 wich came today!!! OMFG!!! more and more nightmares. wouldnt connect to server again to upgrade itself (this turned out to be it not likeing win7 64 bit!!! get a grip chaps win7 64b is here to stay!) so i used the win7 32 bit laptop to get the firmware. more problems with it not likeing certain config statements! more problems with it not wanting to go into debug!! micro tech support ticket was duely submitted and a very unhelpful reply of we have sent you a new unit out send old one back!!!!
wait wait i didnt ask for a new one i was sure there was nothing wrong with this one!! just pee poor documentation wich at best is vagued in the areas it should be shouting about! long storey short i found out by trial and error that you cant mention DEBUG in the config statment and that you have to buildAND program in DEBUG mode and leave it there then you have to cross your fingers and press go! sometimes works sometimes dosnt. i also hate the fact it has to have the target self powered! sometimes i dont like to do that say on a train with a small board and the laptop!
anyway pk3 sorted (hopefuly).
oh yes the new chips
is there anyone else that drools when they get a new chip they never used before??? i have 5 18f45k22's arrived they look stuffed full with goodies ive never p[layed with :D:D:D and with my new found confidance to read bl;oody data sheets i amd realy looking forward to having a play with them. infact off to do it now :D
sorry for the rant guys sometimes i just like you to feel my pain lol
cheers jason
 
Hi Gman.

I actually think there's a "rant" section in the members' lounge. Just thought I'd throw that out there :D

Anyway, I can't say much for the PK3. I've only used the PK2, and never had a problem with it. However, as for the chips, Yes, I also drool over new PICs I've never used before :D
I love Microchip's sample program. I've gotten 12 new PICs this month, and I will be able to get eve more by tomorrow, I think. Not sure I'm going to get any more until i've learned how to use the ones I have now.

Anyway, sorry to hear of your troubles. I hope you get it working properly.

Regards,
Der Strom
 
In regards to the DEBUG configuration bit...the PK3 User Guide explicitly states NOT to write this to the config word. The PK2 User Guide also explicitly states this.

Page 32 of the PK3 User Guide -

**broken link removed**

Moral of the story - RTFM ;).
 
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Post removed. Misread.
 
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In regards to the DEBUG configuration bit...the PK3 User Guide explicitly states NOT to write this to the config word. The PK2 User Guide also explicitly states this.

Page 32 of the PK3 User Guide -

**broken link removed**

Moral of the story - RTFM ;).

In regards to the DEBUG configuration bit...the PK3 User Guide explicitly states NOT to write this to the config word. The PK2 User Guide also explicitly states this.

Page 32 of the PK3 User Guide -

**broken link removed**


i did read it!! i have been trying all night to get the new chips programed, i have got past the first set of errors and now slowly working my way through the never ending list of complaints this beasts throws at me! for example could not enter debug executive,failed to program (such and such area of memory...insert your own area as it seems to ramdomly dislike each one in turn) the list goes on!
compared to the junebug this is a nightmare, tools like this shouldnt cause this much agro. ok so alot is user error and i dare many on the Mchip forum having problems are also user error but surely theese things shouldnt be so hard to use? surely at the very least it should be able to connect to the servers it needs to to get the firmware it wants?? or if not then why arnt they just put on the web to download? maybe they are but being microchip it isnt easy to find stufF and btw my user manual was in french!!! GRRRRRR
 
turns out there is a bug in the compiler,and MC has posted a link for a patch for the new chips! except i cant find it on there link lol had enough of this!!! :(
 
Gman, what pics are you programming? Perhaps a PK2 will be friendlier to you :D
 
I just tried out a PK3 recently. Haven't used PICs in 10 years and didn't have any issues. Firmware updated fine on my Win7 64bit system. Had a quirky thing where the software was asking me about a config bit in debug mode that I posted in another thread, but otherwise, it was pretty flawless. 5pin debug on an 8bit micro is pretty annoying, but that's not the PK3's fault.
 
cant use the pk2 derstrom, i am using the 45k22 chips!, yeah turns out alot of it is my fault!!! i am one version of mplab behind and 1 version of c18!! so before my next rant i will install the newer ones :D if i am honest i dont like change i liked the junebug and still do, i dont like to have to get a pk3 wich i just dont like the look or feel of, shame the pk2 is now obsolete, once i get used the pickit3 i might settle with it but just dosnt feel as good!
as for the update thing according to tech support some win7 64 machines just wont download it. still at least i had the 32 bit to use
 
Hey ghostman I've used a PicKit3 (clone) for a couple of years and never had a problem.

My usual system is a Win7 x64 system and it works great.

Considering you have had the same problem with more than 1 unit I'd hazard a guess that it isn't the unit ;)

Perhaps it is a computer configuration problem (maybe you need to tell your firewall to allow MPLAB access to the web in order to update?) or a user error :)
 
i dont like to have to get a pk3 wich i just dont like the look or feel of, shame the pk2 is now obsolete, once i get used the pickit3 i might settle with it but just dosnt feel as good!

It's just the same really, there's very little difference between PK2 and PK3 - I use them both (on multiple machines) without the slightest concern.
 
well most the problems are getting sorted out, i used a junebug wich i liked alot and obviously the pickits are different they just dont appeal to me!. i freely admit alot of the problems were my fault but the point of the post wasnt to ask for help or even a rant, it was my equivilent of going down the pub and bitching to mates about something when youve had a bit of a crap day. main problem acyualy turned out to be MPLAB!! i didnt have the very latest one installedalso c18 was a build behind the latest. downloaded upto date versions and 90% the trouble went away. pickit3 now downloads from the server ok at MC. another problem was the new chips i got. there are known issues with them and PK3. but takes time to find that out when your not dealing with a stable system to start with.
what i am still a bit unhappy about was the attitude of tech support at MC ok yes they sent a new unit out straight wich is good customer service but it didnt need a new unti and no time was taken to help me solve multiple issues.
anyway when all is said and done i do this as a hobby so no harm is done if the tools i use dont behave, unlike the pro's on here that depend on this stuff to put food on there table i have the luxary of it not affected my life when it goes wrong, so all rants from me need to be taken inperspective. still hate the cheap plastic feel of it all and unhappy with the connectors but then again i kind of feel spoilt by having what i see a quality programer in the junebug wich just feels nice to use! the ICD3 BTW is dead no question about it the little board it has with it confirms there is actualy a hardware fault with the unit. maybe i will get them to send another unti to try. sorry for the rant chaps but like i said i see it as a moan to my mates down the pub :D

on a happy note the chips (18f45k22) although have a few issues are totaly awsome i am realy impressed with all the goodies that are cramed on this chip, havnt got it to do much as yet but taking things slow reading the sheet as i go and just plain having fun building a pointless do everything for no reason 'WIDGET'!!!, having a good rumage in the spares and junk box's and using the opportunity to try and progress my knowledge. ive never used a severn segment display before so have thrown a few on a board to get to grips with codeing scanning routines etc. i dont have a project in mind for the segments but this is all about pure fun of learning new to me tricks!!! :D:D:D i will post my odd widget as i go tho :D
 
I love Microchip's sample program. I've gotten 12 new PICs this

I've tried to get samples from Microchip but was denied. Said they don't do samples in the USA. And another time when I was trying to order from Microchip they did not accept my CC. Nothing good to say about Microchip from my experiences, although I love PICs.

I think Vermont in in the USA LOL!
Shall I try again
 
I've tried to get samples from Microchip but was denied. Said they don't do samples in the USA. And another time when I was trying to order from Microchip they did not accept my CC. Nothing good to say about Microchip from my experiences, although I love PICs.

I think Vermont in in the USA LOL!
Shall I try again

Hahaha, yeah, VT is in the USA :D

I've never had a problem. Just make sure you order the samples from Microchip Direct, not any of the other ones. At least that's the only one that I've been able to use. I think you are allowed up to two sample orders a month, six items per order, and three types of each item. You are allowed to order 12 chips during the first month. Not sure if other months work the same way, or if it's only for new customers.

Regards
 
I must admit I have recently moved to the ICD3 to program 32's and 26K22's and I have had no issues with using it, straight out of the box from Farnell, plugged in, off we go!

Much quicker than the ICD2 I have to say!

Win7 x64 and x32 used for programming and both work fine.

All of my config bits are set in code, and I haven't had any issues with those either.

Can't really say anything bad about it at the moment!
 
ok i spose i better be man enough to admit my mistakes!!!!
finaly have the pk3 working like a dream!!! (still hate the flimsey connector tho). turns out alot of problems wernt to do with the pk3. i couldnt power the target board from the pk3 it would only power from target source, this turned out to be of all things my wifi dongle at fault!! no idea why but changeing the dongle for a spare one has actualy made a fair bit of difference to the usb port all round and certainly made a difference to the pk3. the main troubles i had were outdated MPLAB and c18 versions (i must pay more attention to updates!). i guess because the junebug has been working fine all this time i wrongly assumed the pk3 would be just as happy with the set up!
anyway had a good play with it tonight and has to be said it behaved itself perfectly. there are a few little issues but thats purely down to the chip i am using. and if i am honest the pk3 i think is a good price especialy seeing as they give you a 44 pin board in the box as well, although i havnt bothered to plug the board in yet:D its nice to be able to get some the more recent chips and have a dabble nothing in particular as yet in mind but i am interested in getting the cap touch sensing working that would make a nice addition to my incubator project. only thing ive found with the 18f45k22 is it dosnt like my breadboard much but that is no great surprise as its started to play up a bit recently so moved the chip to a bit of perf and its happier. anyone got any sugestions on what to make cap touch sensors from other than double sided pcb?

anyway all in all i forgive the pk3 for MY ERRORS! :D
 
ghostman11 you can program a 18f45k22 with a pickit2 can't debug it but can program it
View attachment 61159
But then there are better ways to debug I think a led works nice like a break point move it till you find the part that's not working and serial is good to dump registers.
 
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in all honesty for the 15 mins it actualy lived i didnt find a single thing it could do better than a pk2! except obviously it can program the new stuff, but i couldnt find any not a single advantage over the pk2 for debug :(

First and foremost, the biggest advantage the ICD-3 has over the PICkit series is Microchip will replace it no questions asked if it were to fail on you (as it did in your case). It's a level of service Microchip provides to users of their more expensive tools like the ICD-3 and REALICE.

In terms of debugging, the ICD-3 has a number of advantages over the PICkit.

-It's faster at programming/debugging.
-It supports complex breakpoints.
-It supports software breakpoints.
-It puts a significantly smaller load on the target boards Vdd supply.
-It has hardware based over voltage and over current protection.
-It's supported by Microchip as a production programmer.
 
But then there are better ways to debug I think a led works nice like a brake point move it till you find the part that's not working and serial is good to dump registers.

I would agree, I've always debugged that way - however, I would use a 'break point' nothing to do with the brakes on a car :D
 
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