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Mains voltage transients are biggest killers of offline LED lightbulbs?

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Flyback

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Hello,
Is the biggest threat to the longevity of offline switch mode LED drivers (for LED lightbulbs) the high voltage transients that occur on the mains?
A certain lighting company has developed a lighting product, whereby multiple LED lamps run off the output of a large power supply...they say that its best to have one power supply for say 20 LED lamps, because then you can put proper, substantial mains transient voltage suppression in the centralised power supply.

(I cannot tell you the name of the company, but they currently state this on their website now. If I give their name, then it looks like I am trying to advertise them)

I believe that lifetime estimates for LED lightbulbs are farcical, because most of them are power factor corrected, and have very little capacitance on the primary side DC bus, and so are liable to receive component damage due to mains voltage transients. MOVs and TVS's are used, but that's not good enough since these have terribly wide tolerances on their breakover voltage. A centralised power supply, with active transient suppression circuitry is needed.

Does any reader have an article which lists (for any country of your choice) what are the typical magnitudes and durations of voltage spikes occurring on the domestic mains? (page 1.20 "switchmode power supply handbook" by Billings and Morey suggests there's at least 50 surges per year of >2000V on the {presumably} USA mains.)
 
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You are asking for specific longitudinal data for various countries. Over what dates and periods are you interested? Are there any particular countries you are interested in? Some of that historical information is easily found by using Google. For more contemporaneous information, perhaps you should contact the DOE-equivalent at each country. Several examples of older data are summarized in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_quality

Here is another thread on a similar subject. Maybe others will present data there from countries that are not readily available from Google: https://www.electronicspoint.com/led-lightbulbs-killed-mains-transients-t265883.html

John
 
And here is the reply you got to the exact same post on electronicspoint.com (where you use the user name eem2am) from the moderator.

"eem2am -- either modify your post or get banned for spamming.

I'm fed up with it."

Wish our mods were so vigilant. I to get fed up with his constant links to the same site. He obviously is using many forums to attempt to promote this idea.
 
I used to know an article that said something like the UK mains was 1KV for 6 minutes per month..but i cant find it now.
I googled this to timbucktwo and back, and found loads, but no specifics on transient voltage levels and occurrence rate.
The 2pro resettable fuse looked great till I saw the holding current level.
 
1KV for 6 mins??? sounds a bit far fetched.
ps i only post cos you get a free like off flyback :D for every post :D
 
its 2 years since I read it, but im sure it was 1KV for 6 minutes (ie, total, not 6mins in one go, as you appreciate).
I reckon this is enough to make "20 year" led lightbulb lifetimes farcical...I mean the mov and TVS are going to just cave in at some point.
The MOV isn't even hiding behind the input emi filter.
 
It sounds totally nonsensical - UK mains is exceptionally good, probably the best in the world - voltage regulation and spikes are rarely a problem. You seem to just make problems up and post random nonsense.

I've dealt with various cases over the decades, and almost all have been down to JCB's etc. going through cables.

We did used to have problems many years ago with low mains on a certain street or two - but that was simply because the cable feeding it was too small (extra streets and houses were added on a cable never intended for the load it had to carry). Needless to say, it was sorted out by improving the available feed - but took a lot of road digging :D
 
ps i only post cos you get a free like off flyback :D for every post :D

That's about all I'm here for too. :p
 
Maybe 6 minutes out of a year. Lighting could do that.

I don't know about that even.

At a very generous time per surge of one second you would still have to get something like 360 strikes on your lines per year.
 
we get alot of power outs where we now live, mainly i think because we have a (cant remember the voltage but its the next one down from 11KV and only carries 2 wires) and this cable on the poles goes for about 20 miles! not sure from where yet but i know it goes all the way to a place called newton stewart which is around 15 miles away. anyway loads of times things happen to it and power is gone, normally the lights go out then it tries to reset or something for a second or so then out then tries again then so far thats its for a couple of hours min you have no power. What i am wondering is can i connect the scope to the power when its out and :( no sorry answered my own question! i wanted to see what kind of spike when it came back on but forgot the small stuff like setting the trigger and start up time of scope so ignore my stupidity. but i will except the free like :D
 
Maybe 6 minutes out of a year. Lighting could do that.
Would that be some of the much-hyped lighting we've been hearing about from the OP? :D:D
 
Would that be some of the much-hyped lighting we've been hearing about from the OP? :D:D
dont be silly thats the super safe make you a cup of tea kind! that last 200 years and is so cheap to run it pays you!! :D

(another like please)
 
What i am wondering is can i connect the scope to the power when its out and :( no sorry answered my own question! i wanted to see what kind of spike when it came back on but forgot the small stuff like setting the trigger and start up time of scope so ignore my stupidity.

Not so dumb from my point of view. If it was a digital storage scope being powered from a UPS or generator you could easily do the experiment.
 
(cant remember the voltage but its the next one down from 11KV and only carries 2 wires)
Usually 3.3kV.
JimB
 
What i am wondering is can i connect the scope to the power when its out and :( no sorry answered my own question! i wanted to see what kind of spike when it came back on but forgot the small stuff like setting the trigger and start up time of scope so ignore my stupidity. but i will except the free like :D
You could use a computer scope, on a laptop maybe, or even a desk top on an UPS.
 
Don't know about lightning strikes, but I went to a new client's house recently because his electronic lamp psus kept blowing in the kitchen - turns out they were on the same switch as an old switchstart fluorescent - so whenever the lights were turned off the fluorescent ballast would spike the other lamps.
 
Don't know about lightning strikes, but I went to a new client's house recently because his electronic lamp psus kept blowing in the kitchen - turns out they were on the same switch as an old switchstart fluorescent - so whenever the lights were turned off the fluorescent ballast would spike the other lamps.
That is interesting...I thought the startup voltage spike was supposed to be confined to the fluorescent....I am wondering if you can say the model number of the lamp power supplys that got trashed? This is a prime example of the lifetime of a LED bulb being nothing to do with the lifetime of the LEDs.
 
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