Laser Printer For PCB

[AtomSoft]

Can anyone out there recommend a Laser Printer for toner transfer PCB creation? I have a budget of about $100 - $150. Also if anyone knows a good spot to buy cheap (not crappy) Blank PCBs i would love the info...

 

[3v0]

Can anyone out there recommend a Laser Printer for toner transfer PCB creation? I have a budget of about $100 - $150. Also if anyone knows a good spot to buy cheap (not crappy) Blank PCBs i would love the info...

I buy the paper cut SS PCB from Electronic Goldmine.

The printer I use is an HP1020 I picked up on sale for $100 a few years ago. One could do better but at what price I am unsure. It works well at 10 mil. I have not tried smaller but would not bet on it without testing. Once you go below 10 mil there are other factors.

If you are going the pulsar route email or call them for advice on the printer. Then let us know.

3v0

 

[Boncuk]

I'm using the 'FUJI XEROX Docuprint 203A' at 1,200pixels resolution without complaints.

I paid 2,800 Thai Baht equalling 84US$.

Hans

 

[3v0]

laser jet resolution

I have been doing some reading.

Most B/W lasers on the market are 600 DPI. My HP1020 normaly operates in that mode. It has a fastRes 1200 mode that plays a trick when printing across the page. It prints 600dpi sized dots but places them on 1200dpi centers. Not too useful with a 4 sided chip.

HP has what they call proRes 1200. The only proRes printer pricewatch shows is the HP LASERJET 4250DTN for $1700. The discontinued LaserJet 1300 can be had for about $100 (amazon.com) and the HP toner is about $80. That could be an option as a printer dedicated to PCB printing.

The FUJI XEROX Docuprint 203A does not seem to be popular in the US. It does not look like it is a full 1200x1200dpi printer. I found Max resolution (b&w) 2400 x 600 dpi. I am not sure what tricks if any it is using but like the HP1020 600dpi down the page is the weak link.

I took a quick look at color laser printer too. It seems that going above 600 DPI down the page is an expensive thing to do.

It may be the case that I start sending boards out when I need this kind of resolution but it is work looking at.

 

[lqyromeo]

Hi, i just browsed your post, i suggest you visit here-http://www.pcb-assembly.com.tw, here many professional electronics engineers could help you to deal with this thing.

 

[richard.c]

Hi

Have used a Brother HL2030 for several years with good results on most materials, glossy magazine pages, tracing paper, Laserstar film, the 'blue' type films etc.

Think in the US its now been superseded by the HL2040 but thats still in your price bracket.

If you are putting very small pieces of film through its better to tape them to an A4 sheet of paper, but use Transparency Tape as it withstands the high fuser temperatures than standard sticky tape.

 

[3v0]

I have been using 3M brand blue painters tape and it works well in both the laser printer and laminator. It is a bit less tacky then the laser printer labels I used in the past.


It looked like the brother brother HL Series HL-5240 Personal Monochrome Laser Printer would be a good one at 1200x1200 for $180 but reviews of this sort are a show stopper for toner transfer.

Cons: The paper feed is convoluted. Don't bother trying to print anything other that normal copy paper in this thing. If you use card stock, it has such a tight paper feed that it comes out completely curled.

They have two more 1200x1200 units in the $200-$300 range but without conformation about its ability to handle card stock I would not try it with toner transfrer.

3v0

 

[AtomSoft]

Wow thanks for the tips. I like the 3M Blue Tape. I dont know why but i think its the paper feeling to it

As for the printer you think this will do?
"Samsung ML2510 Monochrome Laser Printer, Up To 1200 x 600 dpi, Up To 25 ppm"
Samsung ML2510 Monochrome Laser Printer, Up To 1200 x 600 dpi, Up To 25 ppm ML-2510 at TigerDirect.com

Only $100 also i hear things about drums? Not sure what they are but for the toner and drum together is $80. So for about $200 i can get the printer and extra Toner+Drum.

 

[richard.c]

Hi,

Those little Samsung printers are about the cheapest on the market over here, last time I looked at them, a new printer with new toner/drum cartridge was cheaper than a replacememt cartridge !

The 2510 has the toner cartridge and imaging drum drum in one unit.
Some other makes, like the Brothers, use separate drum and toner units, which are individually cheaper than a combine unit.
You can usually expect to use them on a ratio of 2/3 toners to 1 drum.

Rather than buy new toner cartridges you can buy simple toner refills from many online suppliers for a fraction of the cost of a cartridge.

Just one point if you are tight on space, some of the printers do have to have the fronts open and extended to hold the paper, whereas others hold the paper fully within the case.

 

[Rolf]

Can anyone out there recommend a Laser Printer for toner transfer PCB creation? I have a budget of about $100 - $150. Also if anyone knows a good spot to buy cheap (not crappy) Blank PCBs i would love the info...

I have used a HP Laserjet 1018 for a few years now, bought it on sale for less than $75.00. Great printer, just got my first replacement cartridge on the Internet for $33.00 including shipping. Can't get much cheaper than that.

HP makes reliable printers that have a solid paper feed mechanism that seldom if ever jam.

With P-N-P paper I have done test with 6mil lines that were ok most of the time but 10mil are always excellent.

 

[whiz115]

Hi,

Those little Samsung printers are about the cheapest on the market over here, last time I looked at them, a new printer with new toner/drum cartridge was cheaper than a replacememt cartridge !

The 2510 has the toner cartridge and imaging drum drum in one unit.
Some other makes, like the Brothers, use separate drum and toner units, which are individually cheaper than a combine unit.
You can usually expect to use them on a ratio of 2/3 toners to 1 drum.

the ML-2010 which i think is the version without the parallel port is a very awful printer specifically for printing transparencies!
i'm saying this for the guys that might want to use it to print transparencies for photo sensitive boards.


though is the cheapest b&w laser printer i know!! only 60 Euro

 

[ronsimpson]

Is a 1200dpi printer better than 600dpi for PCBs?
I start to have problems when the line widths get to .01".
On commercial made boards I do not go below .007".
I don’t think 600 or 1200 is a big problem. Left to right my printer is very good. Top to bottom most printers are not very accurate.
I just want lots of ink.

 

[3v0]

Is a 1200dpi printer better than 600dpi for PCBs?
I start to have problems when the line widths get to .01".
On commercial made boards I do not go below .007".
I don’t think 600 or 1200 is a big problem. Left to right my printer is very good. Top to bottom most printers are not very accurate.
I just want lots of ink.

EDIT: Did not answer the question. Yes. But for most people a good 600 dpi is fine.

I am not looking for a printer right now but the thread was enough to cause me to start looking.

Most printers are better across the page then down. For the purposes of board layout a printer is really only as good as what it can do in the worst direction. You may be able to get a bit better result by running the bulk of the traces perpendicular to the best direction. If that makes any sense.

A printer that is true 1200x1200 should provide twice the resolution. It sounds like they use a finer grained toner so cheap refills with larger particles may not work as well.

The quality of the toner makes a difference too. Some refilled cartridges have a lower percent of plastic, the stuff that melts/fuses, and do not work as well.

The quanity of toner the printer can apply to the paper makes a difference. Some can not print dark enough. Pulsar and P&P help with this by covering the toner to prevent pin holes.

The other thing that I ran into was the paper path. If a printer has a path with a tight radius it may jam more easily.

 

[Blueteeth]

I only have access to a 600x600dpi cannon, got it for £25 off ebay with a new toner cartridge. As for results? The toner seems fine with most papers (glossy, magazine, blue p'n'p, even managed a few boards with cheap plain stock paper) but the '600 dpi' has posed a problem for 0.5mm pitch IC's. I have no idea if 1200DPI really would be twice as good, as I printed off a design on a friends printer (1200x1200) and it was still a bit iffy.

One thing I have noticed about my cheap printer is accuracy. I spent a long time trying to work out why its scaling was slightly off. For a pin header, 2x20 (40 way) it printed out slightly smaller, so by the 30th pad, the hole 'should' have been where the pad ring was. Any board smaller than 2" square, was within tolerance.

Turns out this was nothing to do with software scaling (turned all that off) but was merely the accuracy of the printer at the edges of the paper (!!). Printing off a design in the center, portrait, it came out spot on. So beware people, always print off a test pattern with a grid just to see whats going on and if your printer has any weak points with accuracy.

I cannot say this is the case for most cheap printers but I have never seen this mentioned before.. maybe I got a lemon eh?

Other than than, 8mil track/spacing is doable, especially with blue p'n'p.

As for board material, I assume you mean FR4? theres also FR2, and CEM1/3 which are much kinder to your tooling. All of which can be had off ebay. (from shops, not second hand lol).

Blueteeth

 

[3v0]

A single example of one 1200x1200 printer not working too great is just one sample.

 

[Blueteeth]

A single example of one 1200x1200 printer not working too great is just one sample.

Of course, that goes without saying. I haven't tested hundreds of printers, plus with marketing how it is '1200x1200' doesn't mean much. And frankly, neither does price.

 

[AtomSoft]

Thanks i have to read all of this in a minute lol

Hey anyone got any links to eagle tutorials and 1 big question i have...

When routing and using a laser printer what is the best mill to use? if i have a 600dpi laser and am using toner transfer with that Blue Transfer sheet or the TTS.

 

[3v0]

By TTS I think you mean the Pulsar Toner Transfer System paper.

In regard to line width and spacing it depends on the what you are laying out.

If a board has the room I use 12 mil for signals and larger for power and ground. If it is a compact board I use 10 mils for the signals.
Spacing between various parts of the artwork is just as important as the width of the traces. I would bump up the spacing in the DRC to at least 10 mil and make the via size even larger then that.


My advice is to start with a simple board. Maybe the cable tester you talked about today. Do not try to make it too compact.

ERC and DRC are you friends. One the first rev of a board I nearly always find a few things that I can change to make it easier to build/solder.

Do not waste a lot of time if you have problems. Ask for help.

Thanks i have to read all of this in a minute lol

Hey anyone got any links to eagle tutorials and 1 big question i have...

When routing and using a laser printer what is the best mill to use? if i have a 600dpi laser and am using toner transfer with that Blue Transfer sheet or the TTS.

 

[MrAl]

Hello,

Whatever you do, dont get a Brother printer. I had purchased a Brother a
while back and then went to try it with PNP transfer paper and found out
that it doesnt work. The reason is that Brother uses a different type of
toner than the other printers. I read this on the web too. I've also
read that a non Brother replacement toner cartridge might work, but
i wasnt about to spend another 40 bucks just to find out for sure.

The Samsung ML2510 definitely works with PNP transfer paper.
The single sheet feed is a little strange though, but it works.

I tried many iron settings and printer settings with the Brother and NEVER
got it to work. On my first try, i got the Samsung to work even with a sort
of medium iron setting.

 

[AtomSoft]

ok cool i guess i just have to buy the printer now i have some other non Pulsar Toner Transfer System paper. I have the "Press-n-peel Blue - PCB Transfer Paper" as sold in dipmicro but will switch to the Pulsar paper mainly becasue its more popular and they have that silk screen stuff and the green ttf so i can make sure i get it 100%

Thanks for the tips. Ill go out on Wednesday(get paid tuesday night) to buy my printer and test out the 2 sheets of blue press n peel i own. Ill print out a full test like ill make a eagle board with about 2x 20 pin headers connected to each other with varying mil sizes for each.