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Is the age of Electronics as a hobby falling down?!

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wizard

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Hello guys,

I wanted to start this thread in the "Members Lounge" section, but finally I came to this conclusion that maybe it is better to start it in the General Electronics section.

The other day I went to the electronics store of my friend. He sells electronics components/kits, and a lot of other electronics related stuff for more than 20 years. He told me that people no longer buy the electronics Kits. since then I tried to think: is the love of Electronics, circuits, kits, and so on as a hobby falling down?
Then I came to this conclution that mayeb yes:(!
15 years ago I was in love with FM trasmitters for instance. But now I do not pay much attention to them! I don't know, but Maybe the reason just for this one subject (ie FM transmitters) has something to do with Mobile phones, their popularity Nowadays and so on. But anyway I wanted to know your opinions in this regard. Do you guys think that the age of electronics as a hobby is going to be down? And if so, then what the guys who were interested in the hobby circuits in the past try or will try to do after then!!!

Regards
 
In 1970 we got together every week to make amateur radios. The old men I learned from made their transmitters. They thought amateur electronics was over because people were paying money for their radios.

When Keith Kit closed I thought kit building was done and over. I can't get a resistor in town. (Radio Shack has 10)

The kids are making software not hardware.
 
It is just the result of modern manufacturing techniques. The same thing has happened in the car industry. While it is still possible to have a hobbyist interest in these fields it is very difficult to do it on the same level that existed 20 yrs ago. Just check out under the hood of a 1970s car to a current day one. You can't even get your hand in there now.
 
Hi,

I am reading some very good points already here. Things have changed since the 1970's when the first integrated CPU's from Intel were coming out. Back then we had to design CPU's that took up a whole PC board the size of what most mother boards are these days. So things have changed enormously. The digital age was just starting to come in too, with the TTL logic chips. People liked to experiment with these things because they were cheap and you could do a lot with them for that era. Then integration took off, and chips got more and more complicated. Way back when anyone could get a transistor or two or even a vacuum tube and throw together a little circuit like an amplifier or transmitter or receiver, but once you find out that is old hat because of the new chips out there, you tend to loose interest because part of the fun is the novelty of it all. Now novelty pretty much equates to complexity, and not everyone wants to get involved with the complexities of even a small pin count low end micro controller because it involves so much more than the old one or two transistor circuit did. Too bad, it's a loss for us all that have an interest in this field.

And yes, a big factor is that now we have computers. When a kid wakes up that morning what does he do, he gets on the computer and figures out how to program. It takes all his time and it is pretty interesting in it's own right so he sticks with that and doesnt get too much into the hardware because when he looks at the CPU and associated circuitry these days he sees a virtual MOUNTAIN of information that he has to climb in order to gain even the smallest comprehension of how to get that CPU into a circuit. In the old days the most complex CPU was like the 8080 or the more complex Z80. You could learn every instruction in much less than a week. Now the instruction set is huge and it is constantly getting more complex. It takes a dedication in a beginner like never seen before to be willing to weed through all the information just to build a circuit that might be somewhat interesting.

So i believe there are a lot of factors involved. The times change and that's all there is to it. I dont even know if there are any Ham's out there anymore, maybe a small group left?
 
Things certainly have changed. Local electronic parts stores are almost gone now (unless you count Radio Shack). When I was in High School, I worked for the local TV parts guy. He had two stores. One store catered to parts for TV repair (which is where I worked), and the other was more for industrial orders and mail order. This was a perfect job for me as an electronic hobbyist. I had access to parts at cost, and access to advice from the people I waited on. I could look up schematics (remember Sam's?) for any product I wanted to fix and didn't need to pay, since the boss let me borrow the manual for the night. Just about all the money I earned went into buying parts for projects. I found this so enjoyable and considered it like an adventure for the mind.

This age is gone, but the good thing is that those interested in electronics have an even better resource, - obviously the internet. Parts and advice are available even more readily.

I think the bottom line is that only a small fraction of the population are the type inclined to pursue electronics as a hobby in a serious way. Perhaps, some of those who would have done it in the old days, don't do it now because of some distraction (software programming, computer game playing etc.), but from what I see on these forums, there are still people that "catch the bug".

So, I think that those that should do it, for the most part, still do it. That's the way it should be. There are a million things that a person can take up as a hobby. If they all chose electronics, the world would be a very dull place.
 
Here is a picture of me with one of my first computers in 1967. They occupied an entire floor of an office building. I used to install these monsters and fix them when they broke down. Now I build much more powerful machines on a 4" x 3" board.
 

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Kids today play with skateboards not circuit boards.
The kids do graffiti not circuit layouts.

Before I learned electronics electronic products were expensive so I made many inexpensive kits. Now manufactured electronic products are inexpensive.
 
Interesting question, Wizard.

As someone who started out with discrete, analog components (tubes, resistors, caps, coils) my hobby "seemed" to provide a more personal encounter with electronics: you could follow a schematic, part by part, wire by wire and gain a sense of what was actually going on with a signal (or voltage or ground, etc.).

Then transistors came along and while using voltages that seemed, by comparison to tubes, way to low to accomplish anything useful, they didn't fundamentally change the construction/creation process.

That level of creation and construction, however, is essentially gone as an option for today's young people.

It has been replaced by "board" or "block" configurations that are cascaded to accomplish vastly more complex "systems". How the "blocks" actually function is utterly unimportant when considered against what they accomplish. Take, for instance, a TV tuner USB dongle, attach an antenna, plug it into an available USB port, fire up Windows Media Center and, wahlah, you've "built" a TV!!

Is this any less an accomplishment than building a 40 meter CW Ham radio transmitter with a single 6L6 oscillator/amp circuit (from a schematic out of the Handbook)? Well, I would argue yes, it IS a lesser deed, but I am demonstrably old school.

I am quite sure that some young person out there will soon enough gather what he (or she) would consider discrete components together (a laser system here, a plasma control system there, a magnetic flux container from over yonder) and create a working fusion reactor. At least I sure hope so.

But they will still need a basic concept of electronics, at whatever compexity the pieces/parts are at the moment.

And, thus, they will eventually end up here at ETO...;)
 
Well said cowboybob

Good to see you on Excellent. You deserve it absolutely. A nicer and more worthy person is very hard to find anywhere...

Regards,
tvtech
 
In 1970 we got together every week to make amateur radios. The old men I learned from made their transmitters. They thought amateur electronics was over because people were paying money for their radios.

When Keith Kit closed I thought kit building was done and over. I can't get a resistor in town. (Radio Shack has 10)

The kids are making software not hardware.

Hello Ron,

thanks for your input,

Well, So what to do when the time of someting which you put your life time on, getting over?
I am an Electronics engineer, But am I in the wrong side for that matter? I don't like to open my eyes one day and see that the time of my interest is over. I am sure that at that time I would not be young enough to change my interest or do something:(.
 
how many times have I (you) heard,: why fix/make one, just buy one?

Thanks Joe,

Yes You are right. the elctronics stuff/devices are not so expansive today. So people prefer to buy something new instead of fixing something. Furthermore The speed/rate of growth of the technology is very high. So sometimes when you want to buy something new instead of repairing your current device you notice that the new one has more options that your! So again you prefer to buy something instead of fixing it.
 
It is just the result of modern manufacturing techniques. The same thing has happened in the car industry. While it is still possible to have a hobbyist interest in these fields it is very difficult to do it on the same level that existed 20 yrs ago. Just check out under the hood of a 1970s car to a current day one. You can't even get your hand in there now.

Thanks Ross for your reply.

Yes you are right. But as you know the rate of growth of the technology is exponential. So what can I/we do in say 30 other yeras?! How to ride on this wave instead of being removed by it!?

**broken link removed**
 
Hey wizard

All is not so bad. Or depressing. If I rep you will you put a smile on your face ;). I feel the same way as you do about Electronics now. And so do many of us oldies here ;) Tinkering and fiddling and experimenting and learning is more difficult now.

+1 for you if you smile and stay at ETO and share your electronic experiences. What the hell, +1 anyway.

Regards,
tvtech
 
Hi,

I am reading some very good points already here. Things have changed since the 1970's when the first integrated CPU's from Intel were coming out. Back then we had to design CPU's that took up a whole PC board the size of what most mother boards are these days. So things have changed enormously. The digital age was just starting to come in too, with the TTL logic chips. People liked to experiment with these things because they were cheap and you could do a lot with them for that era. Then integration took off, and chips got more and more complicated. Way back when anyone could get a transistor or two or even a vacuum tube and throw together a little circuit like an amplifier or transmitter or receiver, but once you find out that is old hat because of the new chips out there, you tend to loose interest because part of the fun is the novelty of it all. Now novelty pretty much equates to complexity, and not everyone wants to get involved with the complexities of even a small pin count low end micro controller because it involves so much more than the old one or two transistor circuit did. Too bad, it's a loss for us all that have an interest in this field.

And yes, a big factor is that now we have computers. When a kid wakes up that morning what does he do, he gets on the computer and figures out how to program. It takes all his time and it is pretty interesting in it's own right so he sticks with that and doesnt get too much into the hardware because when he looks at the CPU and associated circuitry these days he sees a virtual MOUNTAIN of information that he has to climb in order to gain even the smallest comprehension of how to get that CPU into a circuit. In the old days the most complex CPU was like the 8080 or the more complex Z80. You could learn every instruction in much less than a week. Now the instruction set is huge and it is constantly getting more complex. It takes a dedication in a beginner like never seen before to be willing to weed through all the information just to build a circuit that might be somewhat interesting.

So i believe there are a lot of factors involved. The times change and that's all there is to it. I dont even know if there are any Ham's out there anymore, maybe a small group left?

Thanks MrAl, for your post,

Yes you are right. The electronics stuff are being smaller, cheaper, more in access, and of course common. Some of elctronic devices are multi functioned nowadays as well, like Mobiles. Most of the young are not so patient like the prior generation (maybe because every thing is provided/in access for them easily and cheaply, even sometimes they prefer to drink something when they are hungry instead of eating food because they do not like/do not have enough energy to chew something:D!).

But do you know any soultion? Unlike computer programming, I think that maybe nowadays electronics is not even able to make almost a good money for the hobbyists. Now most of the income goes to the large companies which are involved in it!...
 
Things certainly have changed. Local electronic parts stores are almost gone now (unless you count Radio Shack). When I was in High School, I worked for the local TV parts guy. He had two stores. One store catered to parts for TV repair (which is where I worked), and the other was more for industrial orders and mail order. This was a perfect job for me as an electronic hobbyist. I had access to parts at cost, and access to advice from the people I waited on. I could look up schematics (remember Sam's?) for any product I wanted to fix and didn't need to pay, since the boss let me borrow the manual for the night. Just about all the money I earned went into buying parts for projects. I found this so enjoyable and considered it like an adventure for the mind.

This age is gone, but the good thing is that those interested in electronics have an even better resource, - obviously the internet. Parts and advice are available even more readily.

I think the bottom line is that only a small fraction of the population are the type inclined to pursue electronics as a hobby in a serious way. Perhaps, some of those who would have done it in the old days, don't do it now because of some distraction (software programming, computer game playing etc.), but from what I see on these forums, there are still people that "catch the bug".

So, I think that those that should do it, for the most part, still do it. That's the way it should be. There are a million things that a person can take up as a hobby. If they all chose electronics, the world would be a very dull place.

Thanks Steve,

Like you, I worked in a repair store when I was in high school (Most of the times I couldn't go to my classes in high school because I would like to work/repair, and of course because I needed money). To be honest I started Electronics at age 8, and had a repair store when I was in middle school (at age 14-15). I was a shy boy in those days and people were amazed when they saw me working on electronics on my own store, so I closed my store after 2 or 3 months of working! As I menthoend I went to a rapir store when I was in high school and worked for a guy who wanted to develop his store to a company (that was my main reason of working with him). But Unfortunately he was not able to do so. Anyway I want to say that I started Electronics very soon (Ie at age 8 as I mentioned)! I am in age 32 now. But in the future (ie when I am the only guy who comes to ETO:D) don't lik to think that I was in the wrong side!
In my next posts I'll disclose my main reason of starting this thread.
 
Here is a picture of me with one of my first computers in 1967. They occupied an entire floor of an office building. I used to install these monsters and fix them when they broke down. Now I build much more powerful machines on a 4" x 3" board.

Hi Val,

Yes I have seen those monsters in the classic movies!
What did happen to you when they were changed to the small ones? Could you match yourself with the changes very soon?
 
Kids today play with skateboards not circuit boards.
The kids do graffiti not circuit layouts.

Before I learned electronics electronic products were expensive so I made many inexpensive kits. Now manufactured electronic products are inexpensive.

Hi Uncle $crooge,

I respect to you and to your posts here:). But are you interested in electronics as a hobby yet?

I can rememebr a professor in silicon valley (who had a high tech company) told me that he thinks that a successful person is a guy who can generate money even from his hobbies! That way he never does not think/feel failure!! I am not sure if he was right or not, But maybe if a guy could generate money from his hobby even at age 80 (I now a Swiss professor who does so by working on micro robots!) then he wont feel fail so much. Robots are a product of electronics/computer and I guess the future is for them!! they can draw graffiti as well:D!
 
I remember reading about a year or so ago, A retired engineer that spends his time making "one off" mouth operated devices that are used by persons that have been paralyzed or such that they are able to play video-games otherwise they could not. Hats off to that guy, he keeps himself busy helping less fortunate persons have some joy in there existence :) He does not get paid and does it for free :) Sometimes ones own self-worth helping others is just as good, if not better then any monetary gain. just thought I'd throw that out there.
 
Interesting question, Wizard.

As someone who started out with discrete, analog components (tubes, resistors, caps, coils) my hobby "seemed" to provide a more personal encounter with electronics: you could follow a schematic, part by part, wire by wire and gain a sense of what was actually going on with a signal (or voltage or ground, etc.).

Then transistors came along and while using voltages that seemed, by comparison to tubes, way to low to accomplish anything useful, they didn't fundamentally change the construction/creation process.

That level of creation and construction, however, is essentially gone as an option for today's young people.

It has been replaced by "board" or "block" configurations that are cascaded to accomplish vastly more complex "systems". How the "blocks" actually function is utterly unimportant when considered against what they accomplish. Take, for instance, a TV tuner USB dongle, attach an antenna, plug it into an available USB port, fire up Windows Media Center and, wahlah, you've "built" a TV!!

Is this any less an accomplishment than building a 40 meter CW Ham radio transmitter with a single 6L6 oscillator/amp circuit (from a schematic out of the Handbook)? Well, I would argue yes, it IS a lesser deed, but I am demonstrably old school.

I am quite sure that some young person out there will soon enough gather what he (or she) would consider discrete components together (a laser system here, a plasma control system there, a magnetic flux container from over yonder) and create a working fusion reactor. At least I sure hope so.

But they will still need a basic concept of electronics, at whatever compexity the pieces/parts are at the moment.

And, thus, they will eventually end up here at ETO...;)

Hi cowboybob,

Thanks for your response.

You are very right, The level of creation and construction is not the same as past, but I don't think it is completely dead. I think we can think about new things and work on them yet!
I don't know, but maybe we even do not pay much attention to think/do so nowadays due to the reason you mentioned! We let the companies to try that for us. In BBC channel I saw a guy who invented a new thing which scientists were thinking about for more than 40 years, He could solve the problem by a small trick which other scientists did not think about! (I think creativity is like solving a puzzle, you should think to find the right way, that's all!)! He has his own small company now.

Yet I am not sure what future will bring to me/us in electronics with these fast changes. But It was very good if those kind of blocks/modules were available and popular for electronic guys/hobbyists too. Suppose you have a lot of different blocks/modules like those blocks in the Matlab-simulinkin your hands (instead of a lot of discreet componenets or lab modules). Then you could just think about how to work on them to create new things. You can simply implement any function in your home and create a device.
 
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