Is it possible to build a very small 1MHZ ultrasound massager?

[TheeyaN]

Hello to you all. I am an utter and complete newbie when it comes to to electronics.

I would basickly like to know if any of your brilliant brain's can make something like the following:

You probably know that there are A LOT of ''beauty facial'' ultrasound massagers that work from 1-5 MHZ. They are used for skin treatments, injuries, all kinds of pains and such.. Well i don't need it for any of that, but i do need a very small 1 MHZ Ultrasound massager.


How small you ask? Well, the massaging head should be NO LARGER than a head of a tooth brush. Actually i wish to use that ultrasound massager inside my mouth, ON MY TEETH so i need to be ably to put it in there with comfort.


It can be larger on the start, but the end should be smaller, something like those Electric Tooth brushes.


There is a device that is being made with this purpose, its name is ''LIPUS'' (low intensity pulsed ultra sound) but it costs way over 1200 US dollars and i find that very very strange when those ''regular'' ultrasound massagers cost 50-100 dollars.



Anyway, what do you think about all it. Can it be done, and can it be done by some of you fellas?


Regards

 

[Sceadwian]

From everything I've seen you're not going to find anything of that size, you didn't mention power output by the way, that's kind of important.

 

[canadaelk]

1 to 5 MHz ain't ultrasound!
A pix and spec sheet of the unit mentioned would be helpfull.
E

 

[Sceadwian]

Yes actually canadaelk it is. It's used (I didn't myself know the frequencies were this high up until the other day) used in non destructive testing of welds amongst many other things, and it it's only 'sound' because it's acoustical waves in a material, 1-5mhz sure won't propagate in air very well, but will do JUST fine in a solid metal and other materials.

What you may be thinking of is typical ultrasonic transducers for course range finding.

If you read.

http://www.kayelaby.npl.co.uk/general_physics/2_4/2_4_1.html

You'll note that although attenuation increases dramatically above 20khz (albeit very dependent on humidity), that this does not mean there is a break wall where acoustical energy can not exists at a specific frequency, just it's range of detection being practical. Outside of a gas, the ultrasonic range has a MUCH broader limit for attenuation over distance. Ultrasonic is defined as being out of the range of human hearing, basically anything over 20khz, so 1-5mhz is definitely ultrasound.

 

[Sceadwian]

Also he didn't mention a unit, he wants to know if creation of an ultrasonic transmitter with a frequency output in the range of 1-5mhz around the size of a toothbrush head is even possible. It is I'm sure possible, but would require a discussion with an ultrasound engineer. The details of how the materials of the transducer being put together are hyper critical.

I'd also personally like to know what the point of all this is. Ultrasonic tooth pain reduction? They're called root canals where I come from, and they're very loud.

 

[andig]

Depends on the transducer you use ?

Hi,

Since LIPUS is a medical application products need to go through a number of certification stages which increases the overall cost of the product.

For your purpose if you could just find an applicator only it might be possible to rig up a unit to drive the same or at least modify a cheap $50 unit to deliver lower power to the applicator.

For others who are still wondering what this is all about visit **broken link removed**

Regards
Sougata Das
Andig Technologies
Kolkata, India

 

[carbonzit]

I have to ask, is this even real? I mean, is it actually possible to mechanically vibrate something that fast (in the megahertz region)?

Now I know that quartz crystals do just that; but they're tiny compared to the massive things (teeth) that the O.P. wants to vibrate.

Are the transducers just electromagnetic drivers, like speakers? Piezo?

And after reading that previous link, I also have to ask, is this medical quackery?

 

[andig]

I have to ask, is this even real?

This should provide some pointers. Therapeutic ultrasound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ultrasonics are used to detect fatigue in metals too. For example a railway track is replaced even when it has internal micro-cracks.

It is the wave propagation that works at particle level rather than moving a large object as you are imagining. Have a look here **broken link removed** It may give some insight how a medical diagnostics Ultrasound works. The medium is the key.

Regards
Sougata Das
Andig Technologies
Kolkata, India

 

[TheeyaN]

Thank you for posting Andig.

You said it well and i agree with you, that small LIPUS unit has to cost that much because of all the certifications etc. I do have two regular ultrasound for ''beauty'' which work on 1MHZ. They are rather small (fit in the hand just nicely) but they don't fit in the month, at least not the back molars and even if it did it wouldn't feel good, that is why i though a ''tooth brush'' design would be easy to make and maintain.


I know it can be done since LIPUS already exists and its much smaller than this, the whole unit fits in the mouth, the problem however is i am not from U.S. i actually live in a very poor country so price of 1200 $ plus shipping, insurance, 30% customs.. It may easily end in the lines of 2000$ and what if the unit brakes down after a month, two months.. I would be in a lot of problems surely!


I don't suppose you can make this for me Andig?

 

[andig]

Hi,
As I already mentioned sourcing the applicator is the real deal. I have not seen any similar products in India. While I can probably handle the electronics and programming, the transducer seems quite tricky and proprietary. Dies, moulds involve fantastic engineering costs. Try to post some manufacturers URL so that this thread makes more sense to people bumping into here.

You could search for Chinese Alternatives on Manufacturers, Suppliers, Exporters & Importers from the world's largest online B2B marketplace-Alibaba.com then ask the seller for a sample through Wholesale - Buy Products Online from China Wholesalers at Aliexpress.com Since it works on the Escrow system your money would be quite safe. Only don't trust the EMS shipping method !!

I am not a serious poster (15 posts including this since 2006 !!) but will try to monitor this thread.

Regards
Sougata Das
Andig Technologies
Kolkata, India

 

[jpanhalt]

According to Wikipedia:

In physics, the term "ultrasound" applies to all sound waves with a frequency above the audible range of human hearing, about 20,000 Hz. The frequencies used in diagnostic ultrasound are typically between 2 and 18 MHz.

For sensing and positioning in industrial applications, ultrasonic transducers are used in the >300KHz range. I did some work with the Hyde Park Electronics SM300A sensor. It was about the size of a large tooth brush head (18 X 33 X8 mm). Hyde Park was bought by Schneider Electric and apparently such sensors are still made. I couldn't find that example, but here is a link to some that appear similar:

Automation and Control - Schneider Electric

John

 

[TheeyaN]

Why can't i post here? I already posted twice and i got a message saying moderators have to check it and still nothing.. ?

 

[TheeyaN]

Sure, now it goes right trough.. Pff.. Anyway i posted links of those regular ''beaty'' ultrasound massagers i have, one costs 55$ new and the second one is arond 90$ new, the problem is the size and shape of it, even though they are rather small (fit in the hand just nicely) they are still quite big for what i need them. They can be bought anywhere, just type ''ultrasound massager'' on E Bay.