# IoT doomed - Philososphical question

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#### KeepItSimpleStupid

##### Well-Known Member
Just like Smart Cell Phones are planned obsolesence, it woul dseem like the IoT is heading in the same direction UNLESS backward capability in browsers are ALWAYS maintained.

The cell phone seems to be the "universal remote" of choice, but the browser is least updated, The html is stored on the Inter net of THING and the external browser executes it.

So, aren't we creating a dying bread before it even gets off the ground?

It uses a particular browser. (cell or otherwise)
Browser depreciates a certain aspect of the IOT's html.
IOT becomes useless.
IOT has a short lifespan and ends up as ewaste.

The short cycle repeats.

Aside:
At one point I was developing in a early version of LabVEW when it was in the process of changing to cross-platform. It was not quite mature, so any fix I made, might have been also fixed in a new version. Functions I had to create were then available in a new version.
One function, I fondly remember was "flicker fixing". Numbers in indicators would flicker unless you played games. Error handling did not exist. With LabView, you always have to upgrade, Backwards compatibility doesn't exist. Once a VI is converted to a higher version, you can't go back. VI's as instrument drivers are generally only available in the current version of LabVIEW. So, National Instruments has a perpetual money making machine.

I doubt IOT makers will keep continuing "developing" their products so it maintains the functionality on all browsers. I do remember where this site only work with IE etc. I also know that their are development libraries that try to work out the idiosyncracies between browsers and browser versions.

I have a very old phone that runs Opera mini. The original browser died long ago. AllAboutCircuits (AAC) is usable. I can't find a way to log on and the data of each post is missing.

This also applies to a Samsung Smart TV too. Flash is not supported and networks use flash based players.

IoT has a bad smell to it.

#### Mikebits

##### Well-Known Member
Yeah, I don't think so. I just interviewed for a RF position and it was for 5G. The world is poised for IOT, and 5G, despite your nay saying, it is coming. I was surprised when I heard there was IF of 6 GHz. I suppose the BW requirements are pushing the data envelope. I really don't think browsers are an issue, those think tank folks will just develop another interface or whatever is needed. The Train is coming.

#### ericgibbs

##### Well-Known Member
I would agree with 'kiss', another case of product 'built in obsolescence',
E

#### Cicero

##### Active Member
No I dont agree. Many IoT devices run on a low bandwidth specific IoT data protocol (such as MQTT etc) just above the Tcp/IP layer, it has nothing to do with a browser. They may have a little web server built in, but even so, it'll just be a case of upgrading over the air if anything becomes unsupported over time, such is the beauty of connectivity. Pure HTML and CSS isn't going anywhere any time soon either.

#### KeepItSimpleStupid

##### Well-Known Member
So you put an obsolete feature in a light bulb (html). The browsers change, The light bulb interface becomes useless. See: https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html

That's what's happening on my phone,

Remember, the "browser" executes the code on the "light bulb". The "light" bulb just "serves" the code to the "browser".

#### Cicero

##### Active Member
So you put an obsolete feature in a light bulb (html). The browsers change, The light bulb interface becomes useless. See: https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html

That's what's happening on my phone,

Remember, the "browser" executes the code on the "light bulb". The "light" bulb just "serves" the code to the "browser".
I can see your point perhaps on low cost devices, but just don't feel its applicable to the IoT movement as a whole.

Much of the IoT market is following the SaaS trend, and as such, where there are subscription services you will see support and updates for those devices. For devices where there is a once off purchase, and nothing more in it for the manufacturer...you will have this problem, as with many other tech products.

#### KeepItSimpleStupid

##### Well-Known Member
This is why I called it a philosophical question. You eventually have to replace your smart phone. Say your TV used a smart phone app to control the TV. You buy a new phone, the smart phone app (say it's a remote) on the TV doesn't work. Square 0. Phone updates won;t happen forever, TV updates won't happen forever. So, you paid $800 for a smart phone an$1300 for a TV. Now, they do not work together?

#### Cicero

##### Active Member
Yeah, and that's why we're having a philosophical debate .

I'm just saying your argument is more about consumer technology in general as opposed to IoT.

#### KeepItSimpleStupid

##### Well-Known Member
I'm just saying your argument is more about consumer technology in general as opposed to IoT.

Probably. FWIW: laptops don't appear functional now. The trackpad has morphed into something wacko.

#### large_ghostman

##### Well-Known Member
True IOT is technically a mesh network and has little to do with a browser. In its basic form it uses TCP/IP, IOT has been hijacked for things that use a browser, but the technology is designed to be non specific.....................

We did tons of this 2 years ago at school, the idea behind IOT was so you could pass a message via your IOT light bulb,via the fridge and then to the coffee machine.

My school built its own multi mesh for our tech class using IOT, pretty much the entire technology block was integrated together using TC/IP and or I2C/Serial. I have noticed more recently its being hijacked and tied down to phones and browsers. But honestly this was and isnt the intention behind IOT.

The name itself is mean to be literal, Internet Of Things, and just like the internet it isnt supposed to be based around any particular browser or operating system. Instad the OS or browser is supposed to understand TCP/IP or a sub level.

This was one of the things I needed a R PI when we were studying mesh networks and IOT.

#### Newphys

##### New Member
I have been watching the IOT evolution for years, and it is clearly coming. My problem is how to know what software, etc will evolve, given that the internet software I use online works only for some time, and then needs to be updated or changed.
Yes - I do know the IOT should not use browsers, etc, but some one or something needs access online to the 'swarm'. Scary.
Who controls how the IOT evolves?
Does anyone know?

#### KeepItSimpleStupid

##### Well-Known Member
That's what I mean. My phone will say "Your browser is not supported any more". So, if you create an IOT that uses a webserver for configuration and those functions are depreciated, your device is now dead. So, does this mean you need a whole bunch of virtual machines to run the OS and browser at the time the system was developed?

This is essentially what I'm saying. The webpage is executed on the "more modern" computer, but there's no guarantee that I know of, that certain HTML functions will not be depreciated.

A very simple example of this is the evolvement of the SMTP protocol. I have a hard time getting my server to send email messages to me for warnings etc.

#### large_ghostman

##### Well-Known Member
I have been watching the IOT evolution for years, and it is clearly coming. My problem is how to know what software, etc will evolve, given that the internet software I use online works only for some time, and then needs to be updated or changed.
Yes - I do know the IOT should not use browsers, etc, but some one or something needs access online to the 'swarm'. Scary.
Who controls how the IOT evolves?
Does anyone know?
No one really, IOT is a kind of catch all phrase, it means different things to different people. Look at mesh networks like Zigbee etc, all basically the same but wont talk nicely to each other without having a serious word with them.

One rubbish option is go the Java route, that way your platform independent (as much as you can be). Or stay away from HTML 5 type stuff and stick with just very basic HTML.
OR if it was me... SOC and python scripting. probably using linux instead of say android etc.

#### filost

##### New Member
I want to believe that IoT devices will change human life significantly and for the better only. But I heard many times about newly-appeared malware that disables vulnerable IoT devices (one of the latest news I’ve read https://www.bestvpnrating.com/blog/what-expect-coming-year). On the one hand, such tendency should put off users buying devices. It’s an open fact that nobody seems willing to be hacked and have personal info stolen. But on the other, millions of viruses and other malware still didn't stop people from buying Microsoft Windows products and didn't inspire Microsoft to improve software security. Therefore, IoT devices need using, but only with implementing additional protective measures.

#### large_ghostman

##### Well-Known Member
we are not making full use of the tech, the true power of them is when you implement a mesh network, it gives you massive redundancy. so far we waste the tech on coffee machines!! There is so much more you can do with them.

But i agree, security should be paramount, unfortunately it seems security isnt something taken as seriously as it should be. I cant find the reference but apparently 64% of all pc's have bot net software now. Most cant be detected by virus programs (most of those are a joke!!). We are lazy and dont take our own online security seriously.

How many of us do port scans on our own networks? how many close non essential ports? or bother using firewalls properly? How many secure the routers so only certain MAC addresses can access them?

I open ALL email in a sandbox VM, i then delete the VM every two days.

#### flatfootskier

##### Member
we are not making full use of the tech, the true power of them is when you implement a mesh network, it gives you massive redundancy. so far we waste the tech on coffee machines!! There is so much more you can do with them.
.

Mesh *or* Battery life. Take your pick...

#### large_ghostman

##### Well-Known Member
Mesh *or* Battery life. Take your pick...
Look at energy micro systems, you can have both. things move fast and self routing mesh networks dont use much power. Maybe this is why people dont make the most of them?? Too many stuck in a time warp where you couldnt have decent battery life

#### KeepItSimpleStupid

##### Well-Known Member
See:
YouTube works with a wide range of browsers. However, if you'd like to use many of our latest and greatest features, please upgrade to a modern, fully supported browser.

This message is based on the the user agent string reported by your browser. Any extensions and plugins you have installed might modify the user agent string. We received:
[redacted]

No suppose this is an IOT with a web interface?

They "Depreciate" stuff in the browsers.

#### flatfootskier

##### Member
Look at energy micro systems, you can have both. things move fast and self routing mesh networks dont use much power. Maybe this is why people dont make the most of them?? Too many stuck in a time warp where you couldnt have decent battery life

I've googled 'energy micro systems' but not really sure what you're referring to. Do you have any links for devices which have mesh capability & good battery life? Keen to use them.
Maybe I *am* in time warp: I can't see how it can be done other than dropping to a low duty cycle. That's fine if you're monitoring a freezer temperature, but if you want to switch on a light using a wireless switch that goes through a battery powered node...
Always happy to learn

#### large_ghostman

##### Well-Known Member
I've googled 'energy micro systems' but not really sure what you're referring to. Do you have any links for devices which have mesh capability & good battery life? Keen to use them.
Maybe I *am* in time warp: I can't see how it can be done other than dropping to a low duty cycle. That's fine if you're monitoring a freezer temperature, but if you want to switch on a light using a wireless switch that goes through a battery powered node...
Always happy to learn

I can link but what exactly are you after doing? The reason i ask is the vast product line they do, if you want a true mesh system then that gets spendy but you can go the transceiver micro roure that is down in the micro amp range and cheap. Its also capable of meshing but dosnt count as what i would call a true mesh.

PM me if you like, I have aUK contact for sil labs who is the UK guy for there mesh networks (steve diaper).

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