Innovative New Headphone Amp Help Needed.

[raid517]

Hi I need help to design and build a small portable audio amplifier for use with an iPod and high quality headphones. The problem is the amp I need is not just any portable amp - what I need a portable amp with some fairly new and unique customisations.

The problem is I am not an expert in building high quality audio equipment. So I have come to this forum in the ardent hope that I can find someone who is able to help.

At the very least I would like to commission someone to build this amp for me. I can give them very exact specifications and the amp should be relatively easy to build - since it uses a lot of pre-existing technology. This could and might only be the full extent of any relationship. Further if the Amp should prove innovative enough and if I can come up with a convincing and exiting enough design for it, I might like to take a crack at marketing the amp to a large manufacturer. But that is neither here nor there for the moment. I don't want to scare anyone off by making them feel that I am enticing them into some kind of business deal. All I need right now is for someone to help me actually build the amp - and then if they are interested perhaps we might talk about the possibility of taking the design further in a more formal way. (If they are not interested in taking it further, I might opt to try to do so myself).

Is there anyone on these forums who feels they are suitably qualified to help? To be absolutely clear - all I need is someone who is highly skilled and who is capable of making the kind of high quality tobacco tin type amps I have read about frequently on several audio emthusiasts forums in the past and - who has good medium to advanced electronics electronic engineering skills and who also has the capability of producing really very high quality work. I am preferably looking for someone to assist me in the UK - but anywhere in Europe, or the world is perfectly OK too.

Any assistance anyone can offer would be very much appreciated.

GJ

 

[audioguru]

You are the same guy on the other web forum who is talking about another Headbanger amp with secret fairly new and unique customisations and is innovative. Except it uses a lot of pre-existing technology.
It sounds like every marketing plan I've heard but isn't exciting enough for me.

 

[akg]

...
At the very least I would like to commission someone to build this amp for me. I can give them very exact specifications and the amp should be relatively easy to build - since it uses a lot of pre-existing technology.
....

www.rentacoder.com

 

[raid517]

I don't want to rent a software coder. This is a hardware electronics project.

GJ

 

[raid517]

You are the same guy on the other web forum who is talking about another Headbanger amp with secret fairly new and unique customisations and is innovative. Except it uses a lot of pre-existing technology.
It sounds like every marketing plan I've heard but isn't exciting enough for me.

Well that is tough. Just how exiciting does a project have to be for you? In any case, how do you know it's not exciting. when you have no clue what it is? If you think being paid to do work is not very interesting - then that is entirely your choce.

As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to work like this all I would really care about is getting paid. That is plenty exciting enough for me.

When it comes to 'excitment' I think I will look for my kiicks outside of the work that I do.

Thanks.

GJ

 

[stevez]

What is different about the product you propose? You've described some of the ground rules but all we know is that it's an audio amp. I'd be willing to bet that the biggest challenge is describing what you want as well as adjusting that to fit within your constraints.

 

[audioguru]

Just how exiciting does a project have to be for you? In any case, how do you know it's not exciting. when you have no clue what it is? If you think being paid to do work is not very interesting - then that is entirely your choice.

I would gladly do it for free if it was something new and exciting.
I am only slightly curious that your project is "super top secret".
I've "seen them all" and have been-there-done-that!

I get paid to taste stuff at research companies to give my opinion about many future foods that are "new and exciting". They aren't.
Most of them use MSG, latex paint, phoney sugar or something to save them a few bucks and need to know if anyone notices. I do.
The reference samples are just plain ordinary good food or a competitor's good products.
Coffee and beer tastings are very interesting about the new stuff they come up with!

I was solicitted by a guy on one of these forums to make an LED display for a charity event. I did and asked that my fee be donated. My choice. :lol:

 

[raid517]

It is 'new an exciting' because it does do something different that no other existing product does. For me product design really is an exciting field to be involved in. What better way to earn a living than to spend your time 'inventing the future'. It may seem boring to you, but to me it gives me a genuine thrill to wake up and think that that is what I can do every day.

I can't help that the actual amplifier component part of the design is likely in many ways to be pretty standard (although of high quality). After all there are only so many ways you can build an amplifier. But it is how you interface with that amplifier in this design that is different from anything else currently on the market.

The 'secrecy' part of the project is mostly just a legal requirement. It is really just intended to protect any potential IP and also to prevent a competitor from stealing your ideas and/or designs.

I am a little surprised at just how few people appear to understand the importance of this.

Best regards,

GJ

 

[audioguru]

Keep talking, I'm getting more curious. :lol:

You discovered a way to return to the sound the details which were removed by MP3 compression?
You've added earth-shaking deep low bass? With a frequency divider?
You've added more "sizzle"? Maybe added a little hiss?
Surround-sound?
Vibrator?
Reverb?
Hee, hee?

 

[raid517]

I haven't 'discovered' anything. I have simply combined some existing technologies in a way that provides a unique and different level of functionality. I'm a product designer, not everything I do is directly innovative. (Nonetheless my experience is that there is always scope for genuine innovation within any creative process of this nature).

As a 'hint' and I can't really go much further than this - I can say that there are other products on the market that supply a similar level of functionality - but none offer the same degree of 'choice' and 'quality' that my design would afford. (Choice and quality in this instance are not accidental terms).

This is not about 'processing the sound' as such - so long as the sound is of a high quality, there is no need to mess around with (or change) the existing technology for these kinds of amps too much - although one should always strive to improve quality wherever possible.

As another hint - as I said I am a Grado RS1 owner (for anyone who is interested, please look these up) - and my experience is born through actually using these headphones. My own experience is that these lack a certain degree of 'flexibility' that I would like to find in headphones of this quality.

Furthermore, this product is only likely to be of interest to anyone who owns high quality audio equipment. (Audio enthusiasts in other words) so it is likely that it will be targeted at a very specific market.

But there is no point in trying to guess what this product might be. If you really want to know, then PM me. There are probably some legal confidentiality requirements that would need to be satisfied (as I said this can't be avoided) that obligates participants to nothing more than not to discuss the project with others without the prior consent of all parties concerned. But that is hardly a very sucky kind of restriction - as all it means is we can talk openly without having to resort to these silly kinds of guessing games.

I am certain that I can make an exciting and 'interesting' - and also an aesthetically pleasing product, so if you (or anyone) do think that they might have the necessary skills in order to contribute, then please feel free to let me know.

Best regards,

GJ

 

[Dr.EM]

I can't think of too much to go toward a good quality headphone amp. The use of low noise semis, metal film resistors and mylar capacitors. A DC/DC convertor to give higher voltage for more dynamic range, careful tonal shaping. Thats about it that I can think of. I suppose you could be really fancy and use DSP to give different EQ type settings, mabye stereo width controlling? Think the hardest thing here is fitting it into a suitably small enclosure and giving good battery life. A simple 386 circuit will work well in most cases to give more power to drive full size headphones.

 

[raid517]

Thanks for the positive input. Those are still interesting suggestions.

Best regards,

GJ

 

[raid517]

Anyone?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Anyone?

You've hardly come across as a 'friendly' person we might like to help?, and I agree with most of the other posters, I don't see anything exciting or interesting possible with a simple headphone amplifier?. We may all be wrong?, perhaps you have come up with some amazing idea?, but we see plenty of people making such claims, which usually turn out to be existing ideas, or simply not possible.

Personally I prefer my music to sound as it's intended, any processing detracts from the original sound, and I see no way to improve - good quality source, good quality amplifier, good quality reproducers (headphones or speakers).

 

[raid517]

I don't understand how I have managed to appear 'unfriendly?' If I have been rude to anyone then I genuinely apologise - although I can't personally see it. Do you mean because I tend to use quite formal language? Given the nature of the subject involved - in that it is a reasonably formal proposal, I don't quite know how to avoid that. There was one poster who I felt had been fairly rude, or at least unecessarily short with me - so I felt that I purely responded in kind - although this was possibly a mistake, for which again I apologise.

And as I said this is not about sound processing. An amp, is an amp, is an amp - and as I have both a good quality source - and good quality reception gear. So clearly I am looking to do something different - something that does not involve either of these at all.

As a genuine audio enthusiast we share a similar passion in ensuring that the audio source is as close to the original source as possible. No serious music fan would have it any other way. DSP effects are in this sense 'the work of the devil' to most genuine audiophiles.

However if you think it is impossible to innovate when it comes to building and designing small portable audio solutions and/or amplifiers you would be dead wrong - and I would seriously suggest that this is due to nothing more than a lack of imagination on your own part. Again I do not wish in any way to be rude at all - but as a product designer I can probably think of at least 50 different original ways off the top of my own head right now in which I could prove you wrong. Do a search for 'portable audio' on any product search engine on the Internet - and point me to where exactly you see a lack of innovation there?

Of course it is possible to innovate! Go into any large modern town centre electrical store and take a look around you - all you will see there, for as far as your eye can see, is nothing but innovation! Are many of these products not 'interesting' or 'exciting' enough for you? Do they not inspire you to believe that really with a little imagination, anything is possible? Because if not, you simply need to open your eyes to see it.

My passion is product design, innovation and gadgetry. It is a subject I have followed from since I was a very small child - indeed among my first memories one of the very earliest recollections I have is watching Raymond Baxter on Tomorrow's World on the BBC (which was the premier British technology and innovation TV show in the UK for 30+ years) talking about the first production ready micro processor. I personally don't just find technology 'interesting', I find it fascinating, all consuming - and often utterly enthralling. It is what I live and breath for, what wakes me up in the morning and what gives me the inspiration to get through the day. I love technology, because it says one thing to us - it has one positive message, which is dare to dream! Unfortunately so few people do ever really dare to dream, which is why I guess there are only so few really successful people in this world.

To be honest I think this is why there are so few genuine entrepreneurs - because there are so few people who are willing to take any kind of a risk - even when the only real risk involved is listening.

I'm sorry that you feel you have heard too many similar proposals before and that you can write my project off as being 'unexciting' without having even the slightest clue what it is. (I mean really is electronics ever really that exciting? I would prefer 'functional' and 'easy to use', over exciting any day). The unfortunate thing is that your scepticism may have blinded you to the possibility that now and then on rare occasions a genuine and 'exciting' project might well come along. By writing everything off, it is really very sad that you are choosing to write off this possibility too.

But I don't see why any of this really matters? I have spent a lot of my time here guessing why people are so resistant to listening - and to looking at something that will cost them nothing more than a few moments of their time to consider - because to be honest it is really beyond my capacity to understand it.

At very worst, you don't like the job, you don't do it - and you don't get paid. It may not be an 'exciting' proposition, but beyond adding flash animations and some java applets to entertain readers of this thread, I don't know how much more exciting or entertaining it needs to be? I hardly imagine for example that the Apple design office (or any other office) is exactly a thrill a minute environment, with party poppers, champagne corks popping, and foot long party horns unfurling every other second - indeed I would imagine that it is really quite a sober environment.

I understand the old phrase that there is 'nothing new under the sun', but I assure you, product design is a subject I understand very well - and I very have done my research before opting to engage in this project.

I am certain I can prove to anyone really very quickly just how easy genuine innovation in this area really is.

Best regards,

GJ

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I don't understand how I have managed to appear 'unfriendly?' If I have been rude to anyone then I genuinely apologise - although I can't personally see it. Do you mean because I tend to use quite formal language? Given the nature of the subject involved - in that it is a reasonably formal proposal, I don't quite know how to avoid that. There was one poster who I felt had been fairly rude, or at least unecessarily short with me - so I felt that I purely responded in kind - although this was possibly a mistake, for which again I apologise.

Well that is tough. Just how exiciting does a project have to be for you? In any case, how do you know it's not exciting. when you have no clue what it is?

Personally I didn't find that very 'friendly', remember, you catch more flies with honey than vineger!. However, Audioguru doesn't take offence easily (I know, I've tried 8) ).

However if you think it is impossible to innovate when it comes to building and designing small portable audio solutions and/or amplifiers you would be dead wrong - and I would seriously suggest that this is due to nothing more than a lack of imagination on your own part. Again I do not wish in any way to be rude at all - but as a product designer I can probably think of at least 50 different original ways off the top of my own head right now in which I could prove you wrong. Do a search for 'portable audio' on any product search engine on the Internet - and point me to where exactly you see a lack of innovation there?

Innovation?, you mean endless similar devices? - perhaps a 'product designer' has a different meaning for 'innovation'?.

Portable audio:

Radio
Tape
CD
Minidisk
MP3 players (and similar).

Note that the last three are basically all very much similar anyway.

So how about an example of one of the "50 original ways off the top off your head"?.

 

[raid517]

Perhaps product designers and electronic engineers do have a different definition of 'innovation.' Who knows? Design can often force the pace of innovation. Go into a shop now and look around - and then think about going into a shop 5 years ago. Were many of the things you see now around then? Has no innovation really taken place - or as I have said, are you simply unable, or unwilling to see it?

So how about an example of one of the "50 original ways off the top off your head"?.

I would be very glad to - but I will certainly not do so on a public forum that offers no legal protection for design and innovation projects of this nature at all.

Surely you really must understand that that is not how things work?

GJ

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Perhaps product designers and electronic engineers do have a different definition of 'innovation.' Who knows? Design can often force the pace of innovation. Go into a shop now and look around - and then think about going into a shop 5 years ago. Were many of the things you see now around then? Has no innovation really taken place - or as I have said, are you simply unable, or unwilling to see it?

I "go into a shop" everyday, I work as a service engineer in one :lol:

I don't class adding an extra button, or building it in a stupid shape (totally impractical) casing as 'innovation'.

I listed the five basic portable audio types previously, each of those could (at the time) have been considered 'innovative', but I don't consider slight modifications (most of which are mainly cosmetic) as 'innovation'.

So how about an example of one of the "50 original ways off the top off your head"?.

I would be very glad to - but I will certainly not do so on a public forum that offers no legal protection for design and innovation projects of this nature at all.

Surely you really must understand that that is not how things work?

Yes, I understand that you may consider such ideas 'valuable', but on here we are somewhat more sceptical 8)

However, if the ideas are so valuable?, and original?, presumably you already have them patented?. Not that I consider a patent much protection, unless you are already immensely wealthy?.

 

[audioguru]

My recent visit to a home entrtainment products store was to see the truely innovative Apple ipod Nano. I can't believe how small it is.
Innovative??:
It is an ordinary MP3 player. But it is tiny for having an 8GB capacity.

Recently my son brought home a pile of "unrepairable" junk thrown-out of an electronics store. There were a few broken Creaive Nomad 8GB MP3 players. I took a part from one to fix another and it works JUST FINE!
Just like a "truely innovative" ipod Nano, an ordinary MP3 player.
Except:
a) It is much bigger and heavier.
b) Its Ni-MH battery doesn't last nearly as long as the tiny one's Li-Po battery.

Mine is about 2.5 years old but I downloaded and installed firmware that is a couple of months new. The new firmware improved its sound (bug fixes) and completely changed around its operating buttons.

It is so "exciting" that I haven't used it for a couple of weeks and don't even know where it is. :wink:

 

[raid517]

Well if all you see is 'extra buttons' or different shapes - then I again wonder what it is you are looking at? Sure you might have gone into a store 5 years ago and bought - for example - an MP3 player - but much of what is under the hood has changed radically in that time. It is not all just about extra buttons and 'impractical shapes.'

OK how about a more radical example. How about going into a retail/electrical store perhaps 15 years ago. Are you seriously saying you believe that nothing has changed in that time?

The problem is that a lot of innovation is gradual, rather than earth shattering and instant - so you tend not to notice it so much. But it is still silly to say that innovation never happens - or that it isn't exciting or interesting - no matter how gradual or progressive it might be.

Yes, I understand that you may consider such ideas 'valuable', but on here we are somewhat more sceptical

You can maintain your scepticism if you wish - that is your choice - but all I can say is that I am glad that I personally do not need to share it. This is possibly why you currently work as a store technician. I am not knocking it, but it is certainly a safe choice.

There are many things in life that are unlikely - but the most unlikely thing of all is that you will ever get anywhere without trying.

presumably you already have them patented?. Not that I consider a patent much protection, unless you are already immensely wealthy?.

Patents are always a tricky subject - and I admit I have been ripped off in the past. However I am fortunate in that I have recovered from this and have now been around long enough now to know how to perhaps avoid this happening better in the future.

In any case I don't think this debate is very helpful. It isn't really going anywhere and it isn't helping me very much to achieve any of my goals.

The option is there. For anyone who is interested and who feels that they can help, please feel free to get in touch.

But I certainly think I would find it hard to deal with this 'can't do' attitude in any kind of formal working relationship. If you feel you 'can't do' then fine - no problem - don't. Because at the end of the day, all that will happen is that I will simply continue searching for someone who can.

Best regards,

GJ