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Indicator light approach for large circuit panel

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Gowfster

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I'm new to this site, but the reading I've done here already tells me that I'm in the right place!

My (new to me) home has a lighting system that is 100% low voltage controls, with 5 relay panels around the house, each containing 24 120VAC relays, switched by 24V system that goes to all the switches. It is a GE system like you might find in a school or business. When I bought the house, there was no wiring diagram or map to show what relays go to what switches or what lights etc... and with 120 of them, and close to 200 light switches in the house... very time consuming to do the mapping.

So, being an engineer, I would like to put an indicator light on every relay to show which are energized and which aren't. In the ideal world, I'd also include indicators on the low voltage side so that if a switch is pressed, I would get an "On request" or "Off request" light at the box (and even more ideal, have it lit for 5 seconds, not just the length of the momentary actuation).

I looked at 120VAC LED indicators with pigtail wiring, which would be great, but at about $3 each, a fairly expensive project, not counting the low voltage side.

I also considered making a real project of it, and putting an I/O processor that looks at all 24 AC lines and all 48 low voltage lines and outputs something to 7 segment displays or something like that. This idea is pretty interesting in that I could put an old, low power computer somewhere and route a serial I/O to each box and write an application that monitors the whole house. This is much sexier, but not sure that I have the time to do this.

So the question to my esteemed colleagues, any ideas on how to do the monitoring in an inexpensive way?
Much appreciate the collaboration!
 
They (omron) Part#MY2N-AP among others, have Leds built in the relay.
But it could be a fun project networking the whole house together to find out what switch is on or off.

I just go through the rooms to check myself.
 
For relay energized indicators you could use LEDs with a series resistor of 2.4k 1/2w and a diode in anti parallel with the LED. There a numerous LED mounts that press fit into panels. This would reduce the cost for indicators.

The way I read your description the relays are latching relays in that it takes a momentary push of the on button to energize them. If so, then a uprocessor would be good to create the delay you wish.
 
K7,
I got to thinking about your idea, and I like the simplicity of it a lot.
Yes, all of the switches in the house are momentary contact.

In doing some looking at DigiKey catalog, I thought of some questions...
You had recommended 2400Ω resistors, which (excluding the diode effects) would limit current to approx 50mA. Most of the cheaper LEDs are 20mA rated, so I was thinking about a 10kΩ resistor to limit to 12mA, as I don't need them to be super bright. Any concern with this?

I was confused by the ½ Watt resistor selection. discounting again the effects of the diode, in the 2400 case, isn't the power 6W peak? (V*I is 120*50mA). If you took the rms value for the voltage, I see it dropping to 4W peak, but how does it get to fit in the ½W resistor? Even with my 10kΩ case, P=V²/R, I get peak power of 1.44W, and if I took RMS voltage and used that in the equation, I'd still get 0.72W. What am I missing here?:confused:

I'm thinking of not board mounting this, rather a parasite soldered on the end of the 12AWG wire that screws into the relay lug. the connections are so simple that with some shrinksleeving for isolation and hiding what's underneath(except the LED poking out), I could almost make it look like an intentional design, with the only obvious add is a white wire from under the shrink sleeve up to the neutral terminal strip.

Appreciate if you can straighten me out on the resistor!
thanks!
 
Gowfster,

The LEDs/diodes/resistors would be across the 24VDC relay coils, not the 120vAC circuits.

24VDC/0.02A=1200Ω.

k7elp60 was recommending 2400Ω for 10mA through the LED.

24V*0.01A=0.24W for the resistor.

Ken
 
Okay, that makes sense on the math, but unfortunately doesn't necessarily work for me. Part of the reason I want to add these monitors is for the case where the relay doesn't work, and use it as a debug tool, so sensing the 120VAC side is important.
Most of the relays do have a 24VAC output that drives indicators on the switches themselves, so i could grab that signal and get closer, and maybe the failure mode of the relays guarantees that I can't have the 24VAC if the 120VAC didn't switch also... so perhaps that is a better solution. Otherwise I'm looking at resistors of values so high that the LED current is very small to keep the power down, or low enough for the LED, but high power resistors(not desired at all).
Thanks for the input!
 
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