improving english language

[epilot]

Hello friends,

is here any english person that could help me to improve my english language?
the most problem for me when trying to write in english language is to make a correct sentence, there is few problem with Misspelling.
ok just try and correct my wrong sentences, this will help you to get rid from my broken english language.

all my understanding of english language cames back to high school and reading papers and threads at the moment,
in this forum i know some guys that english language is not their first language
but they write it very good, when i see a post from them i think how they learnt english, my opinion is that they can not to learn it only in high school so my guess is that they was lived ow worked in an english country for awhile,

there is few information about electronics in my native language so i need to know english language perfectly to read the subject in the field via internet.

any help would be very appreciated.

 

[dknguyen]

When learning a language there is no substitution for using it. If you use it enough, you will probably get it. It's harder to learn how to write than it is to read. SO yeah, the best way is to probably live in a country that uses the language you are trying to learn, but if you can't do that, maybe just read a lot of books in English?

Are you having trouble writing or reading? Because writing about someting accurately is harder than reading it and understanding it (in my opinion, because when you are reading the writer has taken care of all the grammar and spelling already).

 

[BeeBop]

Hi Epilot,

You are doing fairly well with English, I would say.

Dknguyen is correct about usage. The more you use it, the better you will become at using it. Like anything else, practice most often brings improvement.

You are also correct, when you state that those who immerse themselves in the language, (by spending time in an English country,) will learn more quickly.

English is a large, and complex language, and it is often not used well, even by L1 speakers. The spelling, as you pointed out, is not easy. English did not have a dictionary, or a standardized spelling until 1755, when it was given one by Dr. Johnson. Also, because there were no rules in place, English continued to 'borrow' words from other languages, and its vocabulary increased until it became the language with the largest vocabulary.

Take it easy on yourself, and be forgiving of your mistakes. Language is acquired, rather than learned, and you may often find yourself 'forgetting' vocabulary which you have already struggled hard to obtain. Do not be worried, this is natural. (It is much easier to acquire language in the first few years of life, than as an adult.)

Now, for some practical advice, the most obvious 'mistake' you are making is with capitalization. Each sentence should start with a capital. Also, proper nouns - the names of people and places - should also begin with a capital. Try just working on this for a while.

Also, I will give you one point on usage, and one on grammar. I will use one of your sentences to make light of these.

the most problem for me when trying to write in english language is to make a correct sentence, there is few problem with Misspelling.

When English speakers talk about problems, they think about the problem as having a size. So rather than 'the most problem,' use 'The largest problem...' or 'The biggest problem....' Better still, is to put yourself at the beggining: 'My biggest problem with writing English is ...'
Keep your sentences focused on one idea. If you try to say too much in a sentence, you will end up running on, and on. In this case, I would split your sentence into two, like this:

The largest problem, for me, when trying to write in English, is to make a correct sentence. There are a few problems with spelling mistakes, too.

Now, you will notice, that I have changed the word 'is' to 'are,' and added an 's' to the end of problem. The reason for this is "subject - verb agreement." The subject - a few problems - is plural, so you must use the plural form of the verb 'to be,' which is 'are.' There is, however, an even simpler way to say this, and it will be clearer.

My biggest problem when trying to write in English is making a correct sentence. I also have problems with spelling.

Now that is a lot of work for you to do. Do you have any questions?

You should now, try applying what I have pointed out, to something you are writing. If you want, post it here, and I'll check it for you, and give you some more pointers.

You can do it, Epilot, just give yourself lots of time and patience, and you could end up sounding like a L1 on paper.

Best wishes,
Robert

 

[JimB]

Wise words from BeeBop.

One of the problems with the English language is that it has parts from many other languages:

Anglo-Saxon
French
Latin
Nordic
and bits of German, just adds to the confusion!

Maybe not relevant here, but one thing which I find a lot of "foreigners" do when speaking English is to try and speak as quickly as possible. I think that they think it makes them sound more fluent. All that happens is that they become less intelligible, while trying to "decode" their accent, you just miss what they are saying. They need to slow down a bit!

JimB

 

[b0j3]

One of the problems with speaking other languages are also "false friends".
Here in Slovenia we even have a book about that.
False friends are words or combination of words that sound correct in native language but the meaning is completly different in other languege.

 

[Hero999]

Some might even be swearing which could be embarrassing or even get you into trouble in the worng situation.

 

[BeeBop]

Some might even be swearing which could be embarrassing or even get you into trouble in the worng situation.

Oh boy, you got that one right. Swearing, or 'bad language,' is cultural. Here, if you say "bad boy," or "you should be ashamed of yourself," it is considered swearing. Yet, it is common for a grand parent to say to a young boy "come over here and let me feel your balls."
I learned 'you should be ashamed of yourself,' from a young boy, then repeated it to an adult. She turned red, and informed me that it was not proper to say such things. (whoops!)

As for the 'false friends,' if, in German, you say "you are beautiful and smart," which sounds like a compliment in English, you are actually insulting the person you say it to. (In German, this is telling a woman that she uses her beauty to get what she wants.)

Oh, and yes, our English language does, as JimB pointed out, contain vocabulary from many other languages. The German part of our vocabulary makes up only about 15% of our language, yet that is the 15% which we use 85% of the time.

Here, there are also two ways to say almost everything. One way is 'pure Korean,' the other way is derived from Chinese characters. You cannot mix the two. It is very confusing!

I have come to appreciate the fact that I learned English as a first language, for as a second language, it must be a nightmare to learn!

Regards,
Robert

 

[b0j3]

I have come to appreciate the fact that I learned English as a first language, for as a second language, it must be a nightmare to learn!

Regards,
Robert

You get used to it.
But it's really the practice what one needs.
Some time ago I learned french (french lessons - just kidding/false friend) and after few years I forgot almost everything.

 

[philba]

a practical suggestion: watch English language Television with closed caption or English language movies with english subtitles. the written words reinforce the spoken. BBC and CNN are good for "correct" grammar.

I'm working on my spanish and I will often watch a movie with spanish dubbing and spanish subtitles. it really helps to pick up the language.

 

[Hero999]

"come over here and let me feel your balls."

What does that mean then?

In the UK, US, NZ and Austrailia and South Africa it's taken as a sexal advance.

Forget English vs other languages, in the UK fags are cigarettes while in the US, NZ and Australia they are homosexuals (which has partly spread to the UK) and saying "I'm pissed" in the UK, Austrialia and NZ means "I'm drunk" while in the US it means I'm pissed off.

Also accents change throughout the UK even though it's much smaller than the US, for example Manchester has a different dialect to Liverpool, this can also change within a distance of less then 5 miles in some areas (like parts of the east midlands and north weast) and be pretty uniform over 100 miles in others (like the south east).

 

[BeeBop]

In the UK, US, NZ and Austrailia and South Africa it's taken as a sexal advance.

As it is in Canada, where I'm from. That is why it was so shocking when I first heard it. It refers to virility, and the continuation of blood lines, which in Confucian culture, are so important. Everything here is Very male oriented. Relations depend on age and social status, and women are subservient. Younger people must turn their heads away when they take a drink at the table. Also, an older person may use informal language when talking to juniors, but the juniors must use formal, polite language when they address an older person. An older person may use the name of the younger person, but the younger person must use a title to address the elder.

From what I've heard, there are more dialects in London, than one can imagine. Some of them, I can't understand. (Cockney!) I have met Australians who tell me they also have a dialect which uses rhyming, and is quite code like. There is a very good movie about the importance of dialect: "My Fair Lady." I think it's time I watched that one again!

Oh, and what you guys call 'rubbers' we call erasers. In Canada, and US, a rubber is a prophylactic.

 

[Hero999]

From what I've heard, there are more dialects in London, than one can imagine.

Well maybe 20 years ago but they're all merging together now and spreading throughout the south east, it's more interesting listening to accents from around Northamptonshire where the south east meets the midlands - it's probably the county with the most dialects in England, either that or Cheshire.

Some of them, I can't understand. (Cockney!) I have met Australians who tell me they also have a dialect which uses rhyming, and is quite code like.

I think is't horrible, and worst of all it's spreading, one day we'll all have chavy London accents, I'd rather have a Scotish or even Irish accent!

I'm from Bedford and it's quite interesting listening to people talk, some sound very London others sound more rural, I've meet people from Rusden, Northants (7 miles down the road) and I hear hints or Birmingham and east midlands. Having said that I don't have a completely local accent myself, my patents are from Warrington and some people say they can hear bits of their accent when I speak, often they don't notice it until they meet my parents and then it all makes sense to them.

Oh, and what you guys call 'rubbers' we call erasers. In Canada, and US, a rubber is a prophylactic.

So that's an Americanism too, I thought it was just a school boy thing like saying pencil sharpener instead of virgina or perhaps it is in the UK.

 

[AllVol]

pencil sharpener instead of virgina

????? Oh yeah, I get it now!

Seriously, I love this conversation. Many good points have been established, but I think one of the best ways to learn correct English usage is by reading, especially magazines and newspapers. These publications use what are called "style books", which are very detailed rules of grammer for writers. Their universality tends to establish a correctness across the industry, provided the publications enjoy strong editorial boards that emphasize proper usage.

Perhaps the worst examples of correct grammer occur in US-produced movies and television. In an attempt to invoke flavor into a character, grammar is often thrown out in favor of "gutter talk". And the music industry? Don't get me started. (The preceeding two sentences are examples of poor grammer used for emphasis, although someone unfamiliar to Americanisms would not recognize that.) Unfortunately, if video presentations are one's only exposure to the language, how can we expect anthing different? GiGo.

Well, hit shore has been real nice a-sittin' and a-talkin' with you nice folks here, and I'd consider hit a real pleasure to visit you'uns agin real soon.

AllVol

 

[wsl69]

English is very diffcult to me too!

 

[BeeBop]

Hi wsl69,
Yes, I'm sure English is difficult for you, but at least English and Chinese have the same syntax (word order) so the grammar should not be too difficult. I think that you do not have any phonetic sound for 'r' either, and perhaps for some other sounds, which would make pronunciation difficult.
I think if I had spent the last five years in China, even though the language is tonal, I could be almost fluent. In Korean, I still sound like a baby, because the word order is so different - they put the verb right at the end of the sentence. They also have honorifics, which really complicate things.
In Chinese culture, how much emphasis is there on age and social position? Does it make any difference in how you speak to another person?

 

[epilot]

Hi Epilot,

You are doing fairly well with English, I would say.

Dknguyen is correct about usage. The more you use it, the better you will become at using it. Like anything else, practice most often brings improvement.

You are also correct, when you state that those who immerse themselves in the language, (by spending time in an English country,) will learn more quickly.

English is a large, and complex language, and it is often not used well, even by L1 speakers. The spelling, as you pointed out, is not easy. English did not have a dictionary, or a standardized spelling until 1755, when it was given one by Dr. Johnson. Also, because there were no rules in place, English continued to 'borrow' words from other languages, and its vocabulary increased until it became the language with the largest vocabulary.

Take it easy on yourself, and be forgiving of your mistakes. Language is acquired, rather than learned, and you may often find yourself 'forgetting' vocabulary which you have already struggled hard to obtain. Do not be worried, this is natural. (It is much easier to acquire language in the first few years of life, than as an adult.)

Now, for some practical advice, the most obvious 'mistake' you are making is with capitalization. Each sentence should start with a capital. Also, proper nouns - the names of people and places - should also begin with a capital. Try just working on this for a while.

Also, I will give you one point on usage, and one on grammar. I will use one of your sentences to make light of these.


When English speakers talk about problems, they think about the problem as having a size. So rather than 'the most problem,' use 'The largest problem...' or 'The biggest problem....' Better still, is to put yourself at the beggining: 'My biggest problem with writing English is ...'
Keep your sentences focused on one idea. If you try to say too much in a sentence, you will end up running on, and on. In this case, I would split your sentence into two, like this:

Now, you will notice, that I have changed the word 'is' to 'are,' and added an 's' to the end of problem. The reason for this is "subject - verb agreement." The subject - a few problems - is plural, so you must use the plural form of the verb 'to be,' which is 'are.' There is, however, an even simpler way to say this, and it will be clearer.


Now that is a lot of work for you to do. Do you have any questions?

You should now, try applying what I have pointed out, to something you are writing. If you want, post it here, and I'll check it for you, and give you some more pointers.

You can do it, Epilot, just give yourself lots of time and patience, and you could end up sounding like a L1 on paper.

Best wishes,
Robert

Hello Robert,

Thanks a lot for all advises specially your valuable offers.

Well, you are just right about capitalization, i will take care about that.

You write this:
"The largest problem, for me, when trying to write in English, is to make a correct sentence. There are a few problems with spelling mistakes, too"

Ok i'll use "beggiest" rather than "the most" for that sentence. But about this:
"There are a few problems with spelling mistakes, too", i did not want to say so,i wanted to say that my biggest problem is 'to make sentences' BUT
i am not worry about spelling because i don't have very much problems with it.

I understood what you said about my first post, so i prefer to write another sentences(like these sentences that you are reading them) rather than rewriting the first post(i'll try to cuse the advices in next posts)

Can you let me know the difference between these words?:
Try & try out, help & help out, end & end up

It is more than 1 year that i spend 3 to 6 hours of every day and read the internet subjects(mostly electronics subjects)
that are writen in english language beside this forum,
my writing and spelling are very better than 1 year ago but i think i have some problems when want to make a sentence yet, for example i am not sure which sentence is right: "the biggest problem for me when trying to write in english language is TO MAKE a correct sentence"
&
"the biggest problem for me when trying to write in english language is MAKING a correct sentence"

I never talked with an english person so yse i have lot of problems with speaking too,very more than making sentences but i have got an CD trainer with 90 hours of conversation between 2 persons i hope to get more time to see it, i am sure my speaking will be ok after looking at that compact disc.

Reading is easyer than making a paragraph of sentences but some times i have a big challenge to understand to meaning of the writer for example:
"Some might even be swearing which could be embarrassing or even get you into trouble in the worng situation"
it was a bit hard for me to understand that Hero999 is referring to the above post and the reason was 'swearing' word at first it means 'avow' but after reading it again i noticed that i must translate it as 'profanity'.

Ok enough for now i think.

best regards

 

[JimB]

I never talked with an english person so yse i have lot of problems with speaking too

That is a problem!
I have seen situation where groups of "foreigners" speak English between themselves and they learn each others mistakes.

But dont worry, your English is quite good, not perfect, but good enough to be well understood.

JimB

 

[BeeBop]

Hi Epilot,
I have been waiting for you to return.
I see you are trying to address the issue of capitalization, and there is a big improvement. Good for you! Now, further on that one, the word for your self 'I' should always be capitalized. That is the next step, and an easy one.

Can you let me know the difference between these words?:
Try & try out, help & help out, end & end up

The first and second pairs are really very much the same in meaning, and can almost always be interchanged. The last pair is a bit more complex. 'End,' and 'end up' both signify finality, however when you add 'up' to 'end,' there is a suggestion of destination, combined with some uncertainty. The word end can be used to signal the end of a book, end of a physical object, or destination. When you add the word 'up' there is a suggestion, or conotation that there is a direction, or path being taken or followed. Where will we end up? Where will all this stuff end up? They are, however, very close, and at this point, just read all of these pairs in the same way.

my writing and spelling are very better than 1 year ago

You see, there is a lot of value in practice, and it is working for you. Keep on studying! It can take up to ten years for an adult to become anywhere near fluent, especially in a complex language like English.

The difference in verb form can be very confusing. I think the most difficult ones are the verb 'to be.' {I am, he is, she is, you are, we are, they are, it is} and the infinitive form of any verb. That is the one which prefixes the verb with 'to.' {To go, to do, to make, to have, to eat} With the first one, be, there is no way around learning how to congigate it by memory. Both sentences you asked about, are correct.

The CD you have will probably help a lot, but I would also take Philba's suggestion, of watching English movies, with the English subtitles. They will be very helpful as well. As Phil pointed out, the BBC is a very good channel to listen to, and they even have some help on the internet, which I think is very good:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/

Of course, reading is easier than writing, but you should try to read from good examples. Try some news items, or better still, try reading some simple novels. I know these will not be in your area of interest, but they will help the most with your language study.

it was a bit hard for me to understand that Hero999 is referring to the above post and the reason was 'swearing' word at first it means 'avow' but after reading it again i noticed that i must translate it as 'profanity'.

Begin with a capital! (Yes, this time I'm scolding you.<smile>) You did make a very good leap here, and I also want to congratulate you for it. You learned by context, the meaning of the word. Just yesterday, I was talking with some Korean friends, and they too, had trouble understanding what I meant by swearing, because they had the 'dictionary' meaning in their minds. This is one of the hardest things to become familiar with, the informal and common use of words, also known as 'idiomatic expression.' The only thing which will help you with this, is practice listening, and asking questions.

I think you are doing very well, and as JimB points out, you can be understood.

Just to reinforce the idea of practice, on Friday I took an American friend to see my dentist. I felt very good because the taxi driver understood me the first time I said "Geyonggii Do Pak Mul Gwon ga ya." (Go to Geyounggii Provincial Museum)
The last time I took a taxi there, I had to repeat it three or four times before he understood. Baby steps, man, baby steps. You will get there.

Best wishes,
Robert

 

[epilot]

That is a problem!
I have seen situation where groups of "foreigners" speak English between themselves and they learn each others mistakes.

But dont worry, your English is quite good, not perfect, but good enough to be well understood.

JimB

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your praise.
I was thinking when an english speaker reads my writings, it is hard for him to understand me but I was hopeful after reading your and "BeeBop" posts.

It would be very ok if you let me know which part of my writings are not perfect and what is the reason, that is one resaon why I am saying it is better a person like me travels to an english country to learn english,
if I try and read alot of english subjects(like now) to learn english language anyway there is kind of problems that an english person can see in my writing while I never paid attention, one example is "the most problem" I wrote at my first post, I never took any care about it while "BeeBop" talked about it and then I thought about my mistake and noticed that it was a nonsensical mistake.

 

[adaminc]

Here's something to confuse you even more!

1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
2) The farm was used to produce produce.
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was
time to present the present.
8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
13) They were too close to the door to close it.
14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.
19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?