House Electric Utility Remote ON/OFF from 1800 miles away.

[gary350]

I have had rental property for 35 years. I check tenants out pretty well but the professional dead beat renters have a way to pass the test. They save up enough money to pay first months rent and deposit then I can't get another penny out of them. State law sucks go to court judge rules in my favor all the tenant has to do is claim he has 3 child support payments from past 3 wifes and payment to 2 past landlords and can not afford to pay me more that $10 a month on the $3000 late rent he owes and the judge rules in his favor. It will take 300 months to pay off $3000 at $10 per month. To avoid making payments dead beats move then I can not collect rent until I track them down and take them to court again. TN state law sucks. Every time I take them to court they move again.

At the moment I have all the rentals fixed with a MAIN circuit box out side. It is the type of circuit box I can pull out the 200 amp FUSE BLOCK and take it with me. NO way in hell can the tenants can get their electricity turned on unless they go buy an identical replacement fuse block to fit that circuit box plus fuses. Dead beats are too stupid to know how to do that. Dead beats rip the lock off the box and try to get electric ON with clothes hangers and pieces of car antennas. If someone can not pay thats is a totally different story I will work with them. I am getting tired of driving to the rental houses with police protection to turn the power off, I need a remote ON/OFF 200 amp 240 volt switch that I can turn ON/OFF with maybe a phone call or text message.

I built a Remote Switch on the work bench with RC model airplane controls I could drive by the house and turn them off. Range is only about 1/2 mile. I need a way I can turn them off from my home 5 miles away, from vacation 1800 miles away, etc. That would be great.

Dead beats will NOT live in a house with NO electricity they all move on their own within 3 days. I don't have to take anyone to court anymore. If I can track them down I tip of their new landlord. I don't care what state law says no one lives in my houses and refuses to pay rent just because they want free rent.

 

[jpanhalt]

As they say, residential landlords make the money, commercial landlords sleep at night. My advice is to be very careful of what you do. American laws do not favor the landlord in residential cases, as you know. And, off the cuff, cutting their electricity in Winter (or water) could cost you more than you will gain. Have you gotten an attorney's advice?

John

 

[Mr RB]

I can't comment on the legal issues, but as a possible technical solution you could use a phone line and DTMF controller, commercial ones and kits are available to turn things on/off over a phone call. Alternatively a SMS mobile based kit or commercial controller might be more convenient and with the right SMS prepaid card would not have the monthly cost of the landline phone rental.

You could have a google for "SMS power controller" etc and there should be a heap of devices available.

Or, you could pay a few bucks to someone who lives nearby who you trust, to go round and unlock the box and pull the fuseblock for you.

 

[jpanhalt]

Hey, you could even start a new TV reality series, "Sparky, the Plug Puller." (For those not familiar to US reality shows we have, "Dog, the Bounty Hunter.") Of course, the exploits of Sparky would need to be documented with lots of anecdotal interviews and sob stories.

John

PS: I am upset that only one major football game today is broadcast. The rest are ESPN. Sorry for the sarcasm. It is the one time of the year I even watch TV. Mine goes weeks without even being turned on.

 

[dr pepper]

I've recently moved, and contemplated renting our old house, but in the end we sold it for the very reasons you mentioned, only here in the uk the name for them is different, we call them losers.

As mentioned there will be all kinds of laws stating whether you can or can not do that, both for electrical safety reasons and whether you are entitled to cut someones power for not paying rent, but thats not what this forum is for.

You might be able to get a proprietry machine to do that, look it up on google.

One way that is probably a grey area is to disconnect the power without any connection to the high current wires, you mention an rc servo, well if you arranged a servo so that it presses the test button on the main earth leakage breaker it'd cut all power to the house without intefering with it electrically, you'd have to of course seal up the assy in an enclosure as some 'dead beats' might have more than 1 brain cell and work it out and break it off.
A microcontroller could operate a servo via dtmf from a phone line anywhere in the world.

 

[mailus]

My idea is by using customer atm card an amount will transfer to you for every month starting.if they does not pay the money the EB supply will be disconnected.(prepaid bill method)you need a special hardware for this.

 

[gary350]

In some States the power company gives tenants a credit card pay box to take home. They plug the box into any electrical outlet in the house and use a credit card to buy electricity.

It would be nice if I had one of those boxes so renters could pay rent and electric in ONE payment. If renters don't pay rent they don't get electricity either. I already checked on this if I build it this device myself and renters sign a lease agreement it is legal. I would have to keep utility bills in my name and ad that to each months rent.

Laws are different for weekly rent compaired to monthly rent. Some landlords keep utilities in their name and add the electric bill to the rent and tenants have to make weekly payments. In this state no notice has to be given to tenants if payment is late utilities can be turned off without notice. Tenant has to pay $45 reconnect fee when they pay rent.

I would like to have some way for tenants to pay rent at their own speed, if they want to pay $20 every time they have extra money fine. As long as they put money in the payment box utilities stay on and rent is paid too. I have not yet figured how to do this. Maybe some type of credit card payment box that keeps the utilities on and pays rent too. This is a great oppoinity for a new invention it could make the inventer a ton of money. I would buy several and I know most landlords in town 3000 more payment boxes could be sold real easy just in this town along. Several 100,000. payment boxes could be sold in the whole state.

I am trying to make collecting rent as painless as possible for ME. I don't want it to be a full time job like it sometimes is now.

 

[Mr RB]

It would be nice if I had one of those boxes so renters could pay rent and electric in ONE payment. If renters don't pay rent they don't get electricity either. I already checked on this if I build it this device myself and renters sign a lease agreement it is legal. I would have to keep utility bills in my name and ad that to each months rent.
...

From a business standpoint that gives you more problems. Now you have to collect rent AND electricity money from the tenant, even if bundled together that still represents trying to collect a larger $$ sum each time, which is more difficult.

Maybe you could try a different system, like make sure your tenant has a job as a requirement before renting, and then in contract you arrange to have rent auto deducted every week from their weekly pay packet the instant it hits the bank. The bank will just take X dollars from his account and put in your account.

And if it defaults for even one week (like if he loses his job) the bank are required to notify you, so you know there is a problem almost instantly and can do something with your 4 weeks prepaid bond and have up to 4 weeks to evict and find a new tenant.

 

[gary350]

From a business standpoint that gives you more problems. Now you have to collect rent AND electricity money from the tenant, even if bundled together that still represents trying to collect a larger $$ sum each time, which is more difficult.

Maybe you could try a different system, like make sure your tenant has a job as a requirement before renting, and then in contract you arrange to have rent auto deducted every week from their weekly pay packet the instant it hits the bank. The bank will just take X dollars from his account and put in your account.

And if it defaults for even one week (like if he loses his job) the bank are required to notify you, so you know there is a problem almost instantly and can do something with your 4 weeks prepaid bond and have up to 4 weeks to evict and find a new tenant.

Renters always have jobs. Problem is making them keep a job. They change jobs and move as often as they need to, to avoid paying bills. I have been a landlord 35 years I know from experience renters will not live in a house with no electricity they can't watch CABLE TV or play VIDEO GAMES with no electricity. Renters have plenty of money to waste on cigerettes, beer, tattoos, nose and ear percing, long painted finger nails, trash they don't really need but they will not pay rent. Everyone in their family has their own cell phone. They have plenty of money for all the things they want but no money to pay rent. The law in TN allows renters to move and change jobs to avoid paying bills I have to find them and take them back to court all they do is move and change jobs again to avoid paying. Years ago the lease said utilities would be in my name if renters were 1 day late all utilities would be turned off. As soon as utilities were off renters were GONE and I got stuck with all the bills. Now I make renters keep untilities in their own name. The type or white trash that rents are the type of low lifes that you do not want in your rental house. After years of experience I discriminate against white trash and refuse to tent to them. College students and Mexicans are my best renters. Never rent to students that play sports they like to party, get drunk and throw furniture and beer bottles at the walls. I don't mind having the house trashed real good when it is time for new paint and new carpet the insurance company will fix the house better than brand new then takes the renters to court to get all their money back. Insurance companies have good attornies they always get their money even if it comes out of the renters pay check for next 20 years. Dead beats don't have bank accounts either. I wish I had one of those things at the car wash that you put money into so you can wash your car that could probably be used for renters pay rent money and keep the electricity on too. Then I would have to deal with a wheel barrel full of quarters each month.

 

[dr pepper]

Sounds like you'd better just flog your property, if its that bad which I'm sure it is.

I'm glad I sold my house, in the uk estate agents will act as an agent, you get guarranteed rent every month whether the tenant pays up or not, and the agent agrees to give you the house back in good condition, fixing it if its gets screwed, all this of course comes at a price, but it seems these days for the reasons you've just said to be the only way you can rent somewhere without worrying.

The only thing I can say in defence of the tenant is that it can be a worry to them if they think that as soon as they get laid off your gonna chuck them on the street.

Some thugs partying next door trashed my fence, and then when approached by the police they said they didnt have the cash to repair the fence, in my garden after the event were loads of vodka and spirits bottles, enough valuesworth to buy a whole new fence, kinda supports what you say, they have only enough cash to buy what they need, instead of paying their way.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

I hear that with the new smart meters, the utility can turn them off remotely.

Likely ZIGBEE AND cell tower based.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

The switch is the easy part, but they are pricey.

The hard part is control. As I see it there are these options:
1. Physical (The one you want to eliminate)
2. Phone
a) A separate line
b) The tennant's line. My alarm system answers with a tone when you call the hose two times in a row. This can be used for remote programming.
Anyway, options include voice prompts, 4 digit pass code, DTMF commands or a modem you actually call, but that would require a computer doing the actual calling or maybe something else.

Their phone? Your phone? They probably don't have a phone or just use cellphones.
Maybe a dial-up Internet provider still exists so you can send text messages. Maybe you could be a dial-up internet provider. This means that at your home have an extra line that provides PPP internet access. MAybe even an "On Demand thing". Call phone, enter 4 digit code. System uses voice prompts. Then it hangs up and connectes to the internet using PPP. Now, you interact with a Webpage or Text messages. System times out, so toll calls don't continue to be made.

Advantages. A low cost phone line at both ends. A wierd access arrangement, but it could work. Remember, the connection would be slow.

b) The Internet. Probably simple enough, but you at least need a dynamic DNS service at the location so you can reach it and maybe some wierdness that it try to ping somewhere and if it doesn't get a response it initiates Shutdown. Sub options, Their internet or your internet.

Lots of stuff exists to control and monitor over the Internet.

c) Cell phone Technology. Basically a Cellular modem or Cellular connection. Pay for a cell phone plan with TEXT messages or an Internet plan.

See, the utility has it covered. Zigbee to go house to house for a few hundred houses and a Cellular or other internet connection for all of that traffic.

You have to deal with "Tamper alarms" and possibly a waring system that your utility will turn off in 5 days unless the rent is paid.

I have no idea what the warning system might be. Flashing lights. Text messages. Emails. Automated phone calls, whatever.

These are some ideas and I don't have the foggiest of how to implement them except conceptually, it's possible.

I won't get into legality either. You still need power to run the system even when it's off.

AND...
If the utility is in your name, what prevents you from calling the power company and ask for a remote turn-off via the smart meter?

Don't forget to charge a re-connect fee.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

I also found this: https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2013/01/page_135-1.pdf

Also remember that Transfer switches can generally do this function too.

Here is an "Overkill" example **broken link removed**, but nonetheless it could work without issues. it's an automatic generator transfer switch and add the communication option and probably the software.

Whether it can work DEPENDS on the communication software.

You just wouldn't have a generator. It does emails and TEXT alerts.

For this application, you generally don't use relays per see, but a motor actuated relay so there is no power consumption in either state.

 

[dr pepper]

In the uk you can have a smart meter installed that can be read remotely and all that stuff, but you have to pay for part of the installation if theres nothing wrong with your old meter, maybe something similar is around where you are.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

In my state, they made nearly EVERYBODY with one utility upgrade to a smart electric meter and WE, collectively have to pay and people are upset about it. Gas can be read only.

Another incorporated city in the same state, which buys power and resells it, is not charging their customers for the upgrade.

 

[ccurtis]

For the remote control link, a pager receiver could be used with some interface to decode a unique numeric entry (of your choosing) from the pager's display for each rental unit. Power the pager from mains power so that battery depletion is not an issue. The output of the decoder deactivates mains power to the rental unit though a mains switch.

 

[k7elp60]

I think another way of handling the situation is to hire property management company that is local to the rental.
The normally do credit checks, collect the rent, take care of minor maintenace problems and pay the owner. Yeah they charge a fee....but in the long run that may be cheaper and less headaches of trying to manage over long distance. Some communities have real problems with turning of utilities, expecially if there are minor children in the dewelling.

 

[gary350]

I think another way of handling the situation is to hire property management company that is local to the rental.
The normally do credit checks, collect the rent, take care of minor maintenace problems and pay the owner. Yeah they charge a fee....but in the long run that may be cheaper and less headaches of trying to manage over long distance. Some communities have real problems with turning of utilities, expecially if there are minor children in the dewelling.

I think another way of handling the situation is to hire property management company that is local to the rental.
The normally do credit checks, collect the rent, take care of minor maintenace problems and pay the owner. Yeah they charge a fee....but in the long run that may be cheaper and less headaches of trying to manage over long distance. Some communities have real problems with turning of utilities, expecially if there are minor children in the dewelling.

I will NO longer do business with property management companies. I have been considering getting into that dishonest business myself there are tons of money to be made at the landlords expense. All property management company care about is keeping the house rented so they get their 10% monthly fee. If the property owner refuses to agree with their rules they refuse to manage your property. They check out tenants to make sure they will be good renters but insist they have the right to rent to anyone. They will rent to a family of smoker with 25 inside dogs. Smokers make the house stink and the dogs distroy the house when they move out property management company will have the whole house repainted, repaired, new carpet etc all at the property owners expense. At the end of the year I get a bill for $20,000. minus $12,000. yearly rent I lost $8000. Property management company couldn't care less what people do in your house all they want is their 10% fee. If a $5 toilet flapper valve needs to be replaced they call a plumber and plumber charges $100 and the property management company adds on $50 for a total fee of $150 to the home owner. Property management company won't try to save the home owner money all they care about is getting things fixed no matter how much it costs the home owner pays the bill not them. I tried to give each rental house to a different property management company just to test them to see which ones were better than others. As soon as I apply they are calling me the very next day insisting they manage ALL my rental houses other wise they refuse to take my business. Greedy people did a property search to find out how many rentals I have now they insist they manage all of them or none. They are so damn greedy they refuse to manage 1 house they want them all. I finally found a couple of places that would manage 1 house but it turned out bad for me they would not even try to save me money. They are so lazy they want to do as little as possible to get their 10% fee. One manage company complained after having to make 3 phone calls to plumbers and electrician my house it too high maintenance for them. Bathroom shower would not turn off it dripped water gasket needed to be replaced, bedroom light switch stopped working it needed to be replaced, electrial outlet in one room needed to be replaced and they call that excessive high maintance for a 1 year contract agreement. They don't want to do any work at all for the 10% fee. Now I am back to square one managing my own rentals.

 

[dr pepper]

Dear me, sounds pants.

My mate has a good setup, he split the upper and lower of his house to 2 flats and rents the lower one to a very nice looking blonde.
I bet he doesnt mind changing her bedroom lightswitch.

 

[MikeMl]

I will NO longer do business with property management companies. ....

God, I am so happy I don't have to rent (from someone like you...)