House electric brownout?

[windozeuser]

This started since last night, every light in the house is dim, and large appliances won't work at all. If you plug in a fan for instance, lights in the basement actually go out. I was thinking it was a brownout, but it's been over 20 hours so far, does anybody have any ideas? Also, some things in the house like outside lights are brighter than normal!

Also things that do run, operate really weak like hair dryers and things. My other suspicion was a short somewhere that is using large amounts of current, but not enough to trip a breaker or it is bypassing a breaker(wire grounded in breaker box?)

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Check your incoming supply, this will prove if the fault is internal or external.

 

[windozeuser]

Just curious, if it was an internal problem what would cause that o.o

 

[justDIY]

if it were a short, drawing enough current to brown the lights and prevent large appliances from working, you'd have noticed by now - the fireman would have pointed it out.

sounds like you could have a break in your neutral return to the local transformer, or the transformer itself is on its way out. call your local utility ASAP

 

[Sceadwian]

20 hours? That's incredibly abnormal, I agree with justDIY, call the local electric company immediately and for safety sake unplug or turn off all electrical devices in the house, the lower voltage can cause a higher wasted (as heat) current draw in induction motors especially if they're not working properly and can eventually burn out the appliances that are affected.

 

[Dan East]

Your power meter should indicate how much current you are currently consuming. The old mechanical ones had a spinning disc. I assume newer digital models also have some sort of real-time consumption indicator too.

If specific rooms work and others don't then you might be missing one of the phases. That would explain "big" appliances that use both phases.

Our church is a 3 phase building, and twice now we've lost one of the three phases, when part of the power would go off all over town. So we would have specific areas without power in the building.

Dan East

 

[justDIY]

@Dan
that's a thought, but it doesn't explain why some of the lights are brighter than normal.

I know what you're talking about, but I don't think phase is the right term... I'm not sure what the 120/120 split power is called, but it is single phase, there's not a second (or third) sinewave being carried down from the pole.

aah, if we can believe the mighty wiki, it's called split-phase power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_phase

 

[windozeuser]

Thank you guys for your replies. The power company guy came out and what caused it blew me away. The incoming supply cable was acting as a way for water to run down into the power usage meter(which the seal is worn away). The water caused a short circuit and melted 3 out of 4 sensoring coils. That brought the incoming voltage down to around 65 volts. The guy cut the burnt up meter and tapped into the main line, and now everything runs fine and I have free electric for a few days until I get a new meter. So I'm running all my computers and everything cause the new meter and installation is going to cost around $600

 

[justDIY]

you have to pay up front for the meter? jeeze, that doesn't seem fair.

when I bought my house, I had my 60a "4 fuse" service upgraded to a 200amp commercial panel (lots of room for circuits). the power company came and cut down the main, then the electricians ran a new mast, installed the meter box, conduit into the basement to the panel. plus a massive grounding rod sunk in deep; they dug a deep hole first with a post hole digger, and then hammered the 8-10ft rod in the bottom of that. after the state inspector poked around, the power company came back, spliced the main to the mast, plugged the meter into its socket, and put their little locking tag thing on it.

I think I paid $100 for the disconnect/reconnect, the meter didn't cost anything up front, I'm sure I'm paying for it in the electric bill though.

its good you got it fixed up though! crank up that AC while you got free juice.

 

[windozeuser]

Wow thanks, yeah I plan to use everything I can including 8 computers and 4 air conditioners while having free electric Good thing is it's going to be about 94F for the next 4 or 5 days, gonna be living in an ice box. The guy gave me an estimate of $450 to $600 including $150 for the number 2 copper cable that runs to the meter.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

In the UK the meter is the property of the electical company, and you're not allowed to touch it, or anything on their side of the meter.

So happily, in the UK, you wouldn't have to pay

I had some extra services a few years back, and they replaced my old mechanical meter free, with a nice flash LCD one, but it does take ages to read, as there are five seperate readings you have to scroll through.

 

[bananasiong]

Wow thanks, yeah I plan to use everything I can including 8 computers and 4 air conditioners while having free electric Good thing is it's going to be about 94F for the next 4 or 5 days, gonna be living in an ice box. The guy gave me an estimate of $450 to $600 including $150 for the number 2 copper cable that runs to the meter.

Are these few days enough to cover the $600? But better than none turn all them on. haha..

 

[things]

this is a stupid question, but what is a "brownout"???????

 

[bananasiong]

"the voltage level is below the normal minimum level specified for the system...."
from wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)#Brownout

 

[things]

thanks for that

 

[stevez]

Sounds like he has an overhead wire from a pole to supply from the utility. Here in the US the utility often owns the meter but everything else from the pole in is owned/maintained by the homeowner. Sounds like the weatherhead (fixture that is supposed to keep water out of conduit) failed and let water in - where I live I'd be responsible for that.

When electric demand is very high locally or regionally and demand exceeds capacity the utilities lower the voltage as a way of reducing the short term demand. An incandescant bulb would dim, some things don't run, other things run poorly - generally called a "brownout". The reduced voltage approach becomes less effective as industrial customers use various electronic drives which easily adjust for the reduced voltage. Commercial and residential customers are less affected with electronic ballasts in lighting systems.

 

[Hero999]

Some things can actually be damaged by a brownout. Induction motors actually draw more current when the voltage drops as the increased slip causes more current in the rotor. Appliances like fridges, freezers and air conditioning units are particularly venerable to being damaged by brownouts.

 

[stevez]

The voltage reduction by the utility to save kw demand does seem to go the wrong way but they do it and it does reduce demand. Apparently they aren't responsible for the damage resulting from low voltage. Maybe the most significant demand reduction comes from overloads that take equipment off line - or people turn things off that won't run right.

Rolling blackouts are the next step and they do that in some areas of the US - California comes to mind.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

The voltage reduction by the utility to save kw demand does seem to go the wrong way but they do it and it does reduce demand. Apparently they aren't responsible for the damage resulting from low voltage. Maybe the most significant demand reduction comes from overloads that take equipment off line - or people turn things off that won't run right.

In the UK they are responsible for any damage caused by the supply being outside the specified limits - I've been involved (at work) in many cases of claims against the electricity companies (their insurance companies payout).

However, damage is usually caused by too high a voltage, and often this is caused by some prat in a digger hitting the undeground cables!.

 

[windozeuser]

Some things can actually be damaged by a brownout. Induction motors actually draw more current when the voltage drops as the increased slip causes more current in the rotor. Appliances like fridges, freezers and air conditioning units are particularly venerable to being damaged by brownouts.

What exactly causes this? Is it because of the lowered back EMF?