Fluorescent replacement LED tube light connections

[AnalogKid]

After almost exactly 50 years, the ballasts in my basement ceiling lights are beginning to fail. It looks like I've put off converting them to 4-foot LED tube lights as long as I can.

Very few available options will drop in and work with *old* magnetic ballasts with zero wiring mods. Rewiring the fixtures is simple, there is lots of room, and I've got all the toys. The question is about the feed.

There are two options for ballast bypass, single-end and double-end. I've fought my way through phone systems for both manufacturers and vendors, and ***nobody*** will take a stand on which is better. "Better" could mean more reliable, or a higher probability of turning out to be the preferred method, and more availablre in the future. It feels like a return to the VHS-vs-Beta days, except back then everyone had a strong opinion, and today no one does.

So, any y'all got experience, war stories, whatever on this topic. I'm rewiring around 40 tubes, and don't want to do it twice. Which feed method is least likely to bite me 10 years down the road?

Thanks.

ak

 

[rjenkinsgb]

I'd go with double end.
That should distribute the load better throughout the LED strip, at a guess.
(It depends on the exact internal construction).

 

[AnalogKid]

The standard construction is the rectifier and current regulator at one end only. Many bulbs are single-end only; the pins on the other end are only for mechanical support, and have no electrical connections to anything.

ak

 

[rjenkinsgb]

If the fittings have the basic two-terminal ballasts, the only mods needed are link out the ballast and remove the starter, to get the one-wire-each-end double ended configuration.

Anything else needs end-to-end rewiring.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I would agree, go for double ended tubes - I replaced all mine with double ended years ago.

Just strip out all the insides of the fitting, and wire live and neutral directly across the two ends.

An obvious benefit is you can then fit the tube either way round, with single ended it has to go one specific way.

As I see the reason for single ended is so those with no electrical knowledge can simply replace the tube and starter, the new 'starter' just been a short circuit. For someone on these forums, just strip everything out and rewire it for double ended tubes.

For what it's worth, I bought my tubes from Amazon

 

[ThomsCircuit]

I dont think LEDS as a reliable source is not quite there yet. Yes they are lighter and in some cases brighter but they just dont last. Nothing stands a chance against the track record of your magnetic ballasts. I have a pair of 8 foot lights hangin in my shop that i got from my fathers gas station which were original to the building which at one time had bathrooms for multiple races. I just changed the ballasts on them last year. Its safe to say ill probably never have to do it again.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I dont think LEDS as a reliable source is not quite there yet. Yes they are lighter and in some cases brighter but they just dont last. Nothing stands a chance against the track record of your magnetic ballasts. I have a pair of 8 foot lights hangin in my shop that i got from my fathers gas station which were original to the building which at one time had bathrooms for multiple races. I just changed the ballasts on them last year. Its safe to say ill probably never have to do it again.

I don't know what world you live in?, but LED lights have been FAR, FAR more reliable than florescent ones for a good many years. Not to mention far brighter, better light, and MUCH cheaper to run.

The old inductive ballasts last for ever, but the tubes and starters are very short lived. Where I used to work (a small TV shop and service) repairing florescent in some part of the building was a weekly job. Every building you go to that still uses them will always have some flickering or not working - they all want stripping out and throwing away.

And don't get me started on miniature halogen halogen bulbs, those are probably worse - it was a continuous job replacing failed ones in the shop windows, and every customers house you went to that had one of those popular 4 bulb fittings in the kitchen would always have at least one that was blown.

 

[ThomsCircuit]

I don't know what world you live in?,

So sorry, i did not read the disclaimer on the thread.
The author asked for experiences, and opinions.
Bulbs regardless of the type perform best if they are used in an environment that they are designed for. In my experience the less that comes between the bulb and its fixture the better off you'll be. My world is half way around from yours. It gets hot in the summer. My world has high humidity too. My workshop is un-insulated but it is 15 foot high. It gets pretty hot up there in the summer. I think i selected a fixture and bulb that is well suited for the environment.
The authors workshop is in the basement. His environment is quite different from mine. I don't have a basement but my home is 10,000 sq ft. I have over 175 incandescent, florescent, LED, and HALOGEN bulbs all in there proper fixtures suited for their environment. I have replaced a few bulbs in the past ten years and many of them are repeat offenders. Its probably not the bulb, its most likely the fixture, location, or maybe the circuit.
My best advice would be to change out a few lights to LED and see how they perform over the next 6-10 months. Amazon is convenient and i do a great deal of shopping there but they also sell a lot of junk so do your diligence and cross reference what you find.

I made this when I was 9. Still works. And I'm old.
Black Light Project 1977

 

[AnalogKid]

The author asked for experiences, and opinions.

Actually, I asked for experiences and opinions only about the two wiring options.

This is not for a workshop. The majority of my basement is finished, with nine 4-tube fluorescent fixtures with diffuser panels recessed into an acoustic tile drop ceiling. Because of the way things were built, I have almost zero maneuverability here. The most rational option is to swap out the tubes, they come in two wiring variations, and that is the (only) question. Electrically, mechanically, or with availability issues ...

Which feed method is least likely to bite me 10 years down the road?

Thanks.

ak

 

[ThomsCircuit]

The majority of my basement is finished, with nine 4-tube fluorescent fixtures with diffuser panels recessed into an acoustic tile drop ceiling

what type is currently installed? T12
Are your tombstones shunted or not?

 

[AnalogKid]

All of the fluorescents are T12, a mix of 34 W and 40 W. All ballasts are rapid start, so no starters and no tombstone shunts. All of the LED replacements will be T8.

I'm not wild about the limited radiation pattern. Frosted tubes help with that a little. I'll keep the replaced bulbs for places like the furnace room, where I have open, workbench type fixtures with no reflectors or diffusers. A real fluorescent bulb puts more light straight out to the walls (and the tops of storage shelves) and up into the joists

ak

 

[ThomsCircuit]

Great. The T12 stones are compatible with T8 bulbs. No shunts means less work.
Since your existing fixtures have a prismatic panel Id go with a clear bulb. Neutral and common wires at opposite ends.
35-4000k gives a clean efficient look and 27-3200k is more calm and inviting.
Id experiment with a few bulb varieties from HD or Lowes then make a bulk purchase online. Most of Amazons consumer complaints were regarding damaged merchandise so be ready for that.

 

[AnalogKid]

I've already done *all* of that.

I know the sockets are compatible. (High school in the 60's)

I know all about shunts. (High school in the 60's)

I know all about color temperatures. (9 years in broadcast television in the 70's)

I've already experimented with local options. That is how I know that some GE bulbs actually will drop in and work with the old magnetic ballasts with zero re-wiring. Expensive and wrong color temperature.

I already have received damaged bulbs through Amazon.

- - - - - - - - -

As above, the only question is about single-end vs. double-end feed. If you know how 4-bulb light pans were wired in the 70's, then you know the re-wiring is equally trivial for both options.

ak

 

[ThomsCircuit]

I've already done *all* of that.

So we have a lot in common.

Neutral and common wires at opposite ends.

It may have not been clear but I suggested double end wiring. Mainly for safety and the ease of bulb installation.
Good luck with your project.

 

[gary350]

I have the new type lights in my work shop they were here when we bought the house 6 years ago. I have 2 of 4 light fixtures stop working. When I tried to buy bulbs 6 years ago they were $18 each bulb. I hope bulbs have gotten cheaper in 6 years. Bulb in picture was so hot on 1 end it burned paint off the metal and what ever use to hold pin straight burned away too. When bulbs are remove the center of the sockets never returns to the correct location I have to manually rotated center to line up so bulb pins slide in. I'm not sure if these are the best bulbs & fixtures or not??? Bulbs say, LONG LIFE what ever that means. 1 bulb was not working when we moved here 6 years ago and now 2 bulbs not working but I never spend more than 2 or 3 hours a day in my shop 4 times a month only in 70° weather, 6 months per year, no heat it has been 12° in the shop in winter and summer thermometer says it gets 147°F in here some days. Today I need to buy, door knob, and sink water faucet so I look at light bulbs too.

 

[gary350]

So we have a lot in common.


It may have not been clear but I suggested double end wiring. Mainly for safety and the ease of bulb installation.
Good luck with your project.

WHAT is double end wiring? When you buy new fixtures your not allowed to take light fixtures apart in the middle of Lowe's or Home Depot to see how they are wired. ???

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I have the new type lights in my work shop they were here when we bought the house 6 years ago.

Those aren't 'new type' lights, they are antique florescent tubes - short lived, poor light, and relatively expensive to run.

WHAT is double end wiring? When you buy new fixtures your not allowed to take light fixtures apart in the middle of Lowe's or Home Depot to see how they are wired. ???

Assuming you're buying florescent fittings?, they will be the same antique type you already have, and wired with some kind of starter - so the way they are wired is irrelevant. This thread is about replacing such old tubes with LED ones, and to do so it's best to remove all the internal wiring, and wire it up yourself - and as I said previously, I would recommend the double ended types - you simply connect the incoming lie to one end of the tube, the incoming neutral to the other end, and it makes no difference which way round you fit the LED tube.

 

[gary350]

Those aren't 'new type' lights, they are antique florescent tubes - short lived, poor light, and relatively expensive to run.



Assuming you're buying florescent fittings?, they will be the same antique type you already have, and wired with some kind of starter - so the way they are wired is irrelevant. This thread is about replacing such old tubes with LED ones, and to do so it's best to remove all the internal wiring, and wire it up yourself - and as I said previously, I would recommend the double ended types - you simply connect the incoming lie to one end of the tube, the incoming neutral to the other end, and it makes no difference which way round you fit the LED tube.

I bought 8 new bulbs today 2 pack of 6500K bulbs $9.99 at Lowes. Each bulb is $5 and 6500K light is 65¢ more than the 4500K bulbs. The 20 year old florescent fixtures have a starter on single bulb fixtures but no starter on double bulb fixtures.

YOU could buy this 120 vac 9100 Lumen LED light for the shop wall it is only $59.99 and 120v it is 5500k. This 1 light will make more light then several 4foot new light fixtures and make more light and cost less install this in 10 minutes. Light is also 240 vac or 277 vac Lumens goes up on higher voltage.

70/125/150 Watt LED Wall Pack Industrial Outdoor Security Light with Photo Cell | eBay

Quick and Easy Installation within 20 minute. Quick and Easy Installation within 15 minutes. Safety Matters--High quality materials, Heatproof Tube, NO risk to catch fire. US/UK/DE warehouse and repair center are available.

www.ebay.com

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I bought 8 new bulbs today 2 pack of 6500K bulbs $9.99 at Lowes. Each bulb is $5 and 6500K light is 65¢ more than the 4500K bulbs. I see no starter on my 2 bulb fixtures. The 20 year old florescent fixtures have a starter on single bulb fixtures but no starter on double bulb fixtures.

I'm surprised you can get them so easily?, they were starting to get pretty rare 5 years ago over here - LED ones are so much better in every respect.

Some double fittings had no starters, as did some single ones - but most of both of them had starters.

There are plenty of LED tubes available at Lowes:

**broken link removed**

 

[ThomsCircuit]

I'm surprised you can get them so easily?, they were starting to get pretty rare 5 years ago over here -

Its called the "World we live in."