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First Shelf

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KeepItSimpleStupid

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First Shelf

Since this is the lounge anything is up for discussion. Today the discussion is “The First Shelf”. I never learned the definition in school, apparently.

The Freezer
Suppose you have a refrigerator freeer where the freeer compartment is above the refrigerator. So there is a compartment bottom and a shelf above the bottom where you can out things.

The Refrigerator
The Refrgerator, starting from the bottom has a bottom which immediately above the bottom is two crisper drawers, rendering the bottom useless. Then there are two wire racks and a solid rack.

The Pantry

At a little above waist level, there is a protruding shelf and at the same level is a recessed shelf. Above that, is two more shelves. These are hidden by “shutter doors”. Above this section is yet another set of shutters revealing a single shelf. Once you open all 4 shutters, it reveals what looks like a singe set of shelves.

Questions:
What is the First shelf in the Freezer?
What is the First Shelf in The refrigerator?
What is the first shelf in the Pantry?

The “Top and Bottom shelf” of the refrigerator are not ambiguous. For this exercise the “Top shelf” and “Bottom shelf” of the Pantry is defined with both sets of shutters open.

Anyone care to take a stab at it? The “First shelf” has to refer to the top or bottom shelf.

Quiz
Freezer: First shelf = (Top or Bottom Shelf)
Refrigerator: The First Shelf = (Top of Bottom Shelf)
Pantry: The First Shelf = (Top or Bottom Shelf)

I want to know if I got it right?
 
We could help you better if you provided a schematic (dimensioned and labeled please) and detailed close-up photographs of the unit in question.







That should keep him busy for a while. Hehehe. ;)
 
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This sounds like a variant of what constitutes the "first floor" in France vs the United States...? In that in the US, the "first floor" is at ground level, whereas in France, it typically means "the floor above the ground level floor" (ie, what we here in the US call the "second floor"). I suppose in France, they start counting floors with zero (0th floor, 1st floor, etc)?

I also realize this is just a "lounge" - but does this discussion have any ultimate point, or is it just one of those "pointless" things you sit around discussing while drinking a beer or something...?

:)

/glug
 
This sounds like a variant of what constitutes the "first floor" in France vs the United States...? In that in the US, the "first floor" is at ground level, whereas in France, it typically means "the floor above the ground level floor" (ie, what we here in the US call the "second floor"). I suppose in France, they start counting floors with zero (0th floor, 1st floor, etc)?

Just wondering why you're picking on France? :D

I would have thought the UK would be the obvious comparison, but don't most of the world start with a 'ground' floor?.
 
At first I thought it was one of those lightbulb questions. But the answer to all off the 3 Qs is simple; your wife will know!

The ground vs. 1st. floor thing is propably related to the imperial vs. metric system.
 
At first I thought it was one of those lightbulb questions. But the answer to all off the 3 Qs is simple; your wife will know!

The ground vs. 1st. floor thing is propably related to the imperial vs. metric system.

Could be - but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't somehow related to linguistics. Then again, it could just be a cultural thing. I wasn't specifically picking on France, just reading KISS's question brought it to mind, since I first heard about it long ago in a barely remembered high school French class... :)
 
Ok, mom's in here eighties and I never realized until yesterday the problem with "first shelf".

For the freezer compartment, the "bottom shelf" is the "first shelf of the freezer"
For the refrigerator compartment, the "top shelf" is the "first shelf of the refrigerator"
For the enclosed pantry that begins above waist level the "bottom shelf" is the first shelf.


Mom says I'm stupid that I don't know what's the first shelf. What happened to numbering things "left, right, top, bottom which is the way we read a book.

Pin #1 of an IC is the lower left.

I hadn't even thought about elevators. At least they are labeled. Most buildings won't have a 13th floor, but the ground floor and below can be called anything.

I think I've seen "B" for basement, "LL" for lower level", "L or LL" for lobby level",L1, L2, L3 for lower level 1, # 2 and #3
I may have seen "G" for ground or "G" or G1, G2, G3 for garage levels. Universally, I am seeing a big "star" around the button which is the street level.

It SEEMS like mom is using the creiteria of the "most used" shelf is shelf #1 and accessibility depends if it's above or below your waist.

I really think it's pointless to argue about what is the first shelf, but I do want to agree on a creiteria. I can't. Mom, say I'm stupid if I don't know. I didn't learn the definition in school, either.

This is an aside, but still related because my rules might be hard to follow.

I like "chronological" sorting too. Seemingly unrelated stuff grouped into the same pile. I also group my "project" or "anticipated project". I want to find a collection of VARIOUS pens, markers, erasers, pencils together. Excess can be grouped by like items e.g. a package of pens. Paper clips are usually found in one place in the house (infrequent use). I have a "plumbing" toolbox and an "electrical" toolbox. In the plumbing box you will find pipe wrenches (clearly plumbing), band wrenches, large adjustible wrenches, channel locks. Then there is a delemma. I just bought an 18 mm deep and a 32 mm deep socket which will probably only be used on a single plumbing fixture. Plumbing? Nope, misc tools drawer. A 1/2" breaker bar was purchased to replace a harmonic balancer pulley. Large handle. It's stored attached to an impact socket that fits the car's lugnuts.
 
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Mom says I'm stupid that I don't know what's the first shelf.

I think "stupid" is a bit too strong of a word - ignorant to -her system- would be a better choice, and I think you are right about the "most used" as being "1st" in her mind...

That said, had I known this was a family dispute...well, I don't know - but it does seem rather pointless in the grand scheme of things. Though it is interesting to see, through the potential insight, how another's mind works in organizing and labeling concepts. Depending on whether you care, you might want to think about other similar groupings, and the labels she uses for them, and see if there is a correlation...?

:)
 
I've never had to give this much thought, since I tend to be pretty descriptive when giving any form of direction of where someone else should find something, e.g.
"Top tool box, right hand side, third drawer down."

For me, the question to someone else if unsure would be "First from the top, or the bottom?"
 
Mom refused to tell me if it was "from the top" or "from the bottom". That was the primary cause of the problem. Then, come to find out, it varies.


I want to know why it took 54 years to realize this was an issue. It's me an mom now and there is no referee. What I preceive as "Logical" isn't. If I propose an "experiment", mom's always right. For instance, "hanging underwear" on the clothes line:
Me: boxers sideways to take up less space. Mom: Must be hunk by elastic or "They won't dry". Me: Propose an experiment: Hang side by side and check dryness. Internet: Saw a pic of women's panties hung by the crotch.

In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter, just mind your own business. I'm trying to understand "her logic" and can't. Her logic seems to change, and I don't know all of the variables.

MOM: "Your dinner is gong to get cold". Me: Who is eating the dinner? Me or You?

The "wife knows" was a good answer.
 
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OK, 3 things:
1) kiss: As captain Sparrow said: You need to find yourself a girlfriend
2) I allways wanted to invent a refrigarator with only a top shelf
3) You all have a great July 4th holiday
Cheers E
 
Something else to realize is that your mom may not be "all there" - so to speak (for any number of reasons, old age being just one). My own mother was able to hold it all together for far longer than my wife and I realized from over-the-phone conversations (my mother and I lived in different states - her in California, me in Arizona); it wasn't until she fell and broke her hip that we realized just how much help she really needed. It wasn't until later that we realized that she had been fooling us quite adroitly about her own deterioration (indeed, she probably didn't realize it herself - a person generally can't be objective about their own brain state, unfortunately).

Now, maybe (hopefully), your mother isn't in this same situation - but you may want to get her evaluated as soon as possible. You may also want to discuss things about wills, power of attorney (medical and general), living trusts, etc - right now, before your mother deteriorates any further. My own mother was adamant about us (my wife and I) "not being in her business" - until she fell, and we found that she was hording 3 years of uncashed/undeposited social security checks in her purse. Her arguing with you about the "logical order of things" may be nothing - or it may be an indicator of something greater.

We found out later in the hospital that my mom had a form of aphasia (she couldn't use any "A" words - show her an apple, she knew what it was, but couldn't name it properly - over the rest of her brief time with us, her aphasia progressed - sometimes to a point where we had to wrack our brains trying to figure out what she was talking about - she would say things that didn't make any sense at all; complete nonsense - until you unraveled them in an "aphasic" manner - then it made complete sense).

Do what you can while you still have time, while your mom still have some sense of awareness about her - because if your mom is declared incompetent by the State, and you don't have your legal p's and q's in order, things will get really difficult, really quick - not to mention expensive (you'll be in for a shock if you ever have to price good nursing home care for dementia/Alzheimer's patients).

Good luck, and I hope it works out well for both of you - I really do. :)
 
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POA is in place, so is Advanced Medical Directive. I am an only child and the lawyer that my mom saw didn't reccomend a trust for the house and car. POD, ITF or joint are for the most part, in place. I know that things are wierd and have always been that way. I do worry about her falling because of underlying medical issues.

A PERS (Personal Emergency Response) pendant, self-nstalled/maintained is in place I could cut monthly monitoring expenses from about $23 to $9.00 if I wanted to. I get some level of support with the $23. They did call when you havn't tested in a while. Turned out it was Verizon's phone line and it took about a month to solve.

I did have "family" psycological session with mom and I tink the biggest thing noticed by the therapist was the inability to listen and resistance. Her behavior has affected me. Example: I climbed a fence when I was about 5 YO because kids wouldn't let me out of my own yard and caught my leg and fell. Mom spanked me first and then realized that my arm was dangling. That turned out to be a very serious dislocation that required 6 months in a cast.

I've had a couple of psychological evaluations (one to see if there was a psychological component of migraine) and then another that focused on missing aspects. Short-term memory is horrible and I think very different than most people. I have high attention to detail that was deamed detrimental. I think, that it doesn't match other's.

Example: I'm interested in completing a project quickly and on time so therefore boss perceives nothing is happening because I'm ordering/designing for the next phase. Boss wants to impress bigger boss by being able to check things off the list. Boss wants to have students wire a safety system where failure could be deadly. The safety system was relay based and worked once. Anticipating issues was yet another problem. Boss is like, you don't know, so ignore it. Or when you tell boss, that you learned that the system we are re-installing will be unsupported within 6 months (cost new is about $40K) and he reems you a new A[letters missing].

A chemical engineer said to me: "why does the control panel have to be wired neat"? or "Why do you have to communicate with a control panel in another room with contact closures"? (He wanted me to power indicator lights in another room from a panel located elsewhere. I said no!)

Or, you tell management that a home-built control system is using ground as the 120 V return (may be 6 Watts) and he just says, it has worked for 20 years.

Thanks for the warning. Just witnessed what happens when an aunt is a devout catholic and wanted to join the church and she donated money to my mom's sister's convent, the son is an Atheist and the daughter is married to a Eucharistic minister. My aunt was in a nursing home with dimentia. The daughter was instrumental in her getting better care. The son had POA and he just had a memorial service in the church with no body and intended on creamating her. The daughter was instrumental in stopping the cremation. The daughter was looking after her mom's interest and had no power to do so. The daughter and brothers havn't spoken in years.
 
It sounds like you have things as well under control as you can, KISS; the only other thing I would recommend (unless you already have a will in place that stipulates you as the heir; my mother didn't, and things have been sitting in probate in California for 2 years now) would be to get some or all of the finances in one or more joint bank accounts between you and your mother. If you have a POA, this shouldn't be too difficult. This will allow you to use her finances to take care of her, and also have a place for any other deposits (like SS) to go. If there isn't a will in place, then you likely won't have to worry about probate tying those funds up (if needed for funeral needs).

I'm mostly only familiar (somewhat) with the legal and financial side of things like this; my wife, a saint of boundless proportions, was my mother's daily caregiver during her last 8-9 months. It was one of the "craziest" periods in our life, but I also consider it a great period for me of personal growth and learning. If you need any advice during this time, don't hesitate to send me a PM. I'll assist as best as I can.
 
Her will is taken care of. Mine isn't. She is 84 YO and can still drive. Basically she can't walk, stand, sit etc. for and lenght of time. In the house she uses a 5 prong cane in the mornings. Walkers, shopping carts, canes are fine for short trips such as shopping. A wheelchir is necessary in an airport. The arguments over nothing is the current problem. Examples: You didn't sign in the right place or you went the wrong way to the store or you peeled the potatoes clockwise rather than counter-clockwise (kidding - but that's how I feel), You took too much skin off when you peeled the pototoes, Your using the wrong pot, the pot is too big, see the shovel of dirt I got etc. She's behaves fine when others are present for the most part.

Thanks for your offer of help.
 
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