Excessive voltage from new Lithium AA battery cells.

[audioguru]

I usually buy Energizer AA alkaline cells because they are reliable and never leak. Duracell battery cells are a little more powerful but they leak all over the place!
A few years ago I was given free samples of Energizer Lithium AA battery cells that worked extremely well but they cost too much so I never purchased any.

Recently I saw Eveready Lithium battery cells at a very low clearance price so I bought the two packages of 4 cells remaining in the store.
Eveready is/was the founding company now called Energizer and they have the same customer support phone number. I asked customer service if the Eveready Lithium cells are the same as the Energizer Lithium cells and they said yes.

Yesterday I opened one package of 4 Eveready cells and mounted them in my project. Each cell measured 1.6V which is fine.
All 4 cells in the second package measured 1.8V each when powering my project with about 5mA which is wrong. How can they DOO DAT?

Customer Service is closed today because it is a holiday but tomorrow I will demand a coupon for replacements and I will let you know what they say.

It is odd that a Lithium coin cell is 3.2V but these Lithium cylindrical cells are supposed to be 1.6V. How?

EDIT: I put one 1.8V Lithium AA cell in my battery tester that has a 10 ohms load and it said GOOD. I measured 1.66V and it was slowly dropping. Without the load the voltage kept slowly rising. After resting a few minutes without the load the voltage is 1.69V and rising very very slowly. Tomorrow it might end at 1.8V again.

 

[ronsimpson]

It is odd that a Lithium coin cell is 3.2V but these Lithium cylindrical cells are supposed to be 1.6V. How?

It is simple chemistry. You should get the same voltage all the time. For years we calibrated volt meters with a fresh 1.5V battery.
I don't know how can they DOO DAT.

 

[MrAl]

Hi,

Calibrating a volt meter with a fresh 1.5v battery? I hope it was a 'standard' cell. Today alkalines run up above 1.6v when new. I dont buy carbon zinc anymore so i dont know about them.

The highest i have seen a new cell is 1.65v, and i dont buy the lithium primary cells so i dont know about them either.

The general rule though is when changing battery chemistry always double check the replacement is equal to the old.
I bought some of those "NiZn" cells a while ago (big waste of money BTW) and the terminal voltage is around 1.8v too. Too bad they only last a couple cycles and then die.

 

[audioguru]

A Lithium Ion or a Lithium Polymer rechargeable battery cell is 4.2V when fully charged.
A Lithium coin cell is 3.2V when new.
A Lithium cylindrical cell like four I have and many more before are supposed to be 1.6V and they are.

BUT four more identical Lithium cylindrical cells are 1.8V which is wrong.

 

[Externet]

Is there any markings in the package or cells that differ in manufacturing plant, date, batch, ... ?

 

[audioguru]

My new Eveready Lithium AA cells all have the same code "0313 and 2013" (made in March, 2013 and best before 2023?). They are made in Singapore for Eveready Battery Company Inc, St. Louis MO. They say 1.5V.
The cell that was 1.8V then discharged a little 9 hours ago now measures 1.76V with no load.

The identical "good" cells now measure higher than before at 1.72V each. They have been powering my project with about 5mA for 9 hours.

 

[jpanhalt]

According to the Energizer site, these may be lithium iron disulfide batteriies:*

The anode (Faraday definition) is lithium, but cathode chemistry has a large role in determining the OCV. I suspect your batteries are OK. They are sold as "1.5V" nominal.

John

*https://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiuml91l92_appman.pdf

 

[MrAl]

Hello again,

I like that explanation best so far John, that's a good find

There are also impostor batteries hitting the market. These things vary from the original in different ways. Most notable is the capacity and current rating (rechargeable batteries). There could be other differences too including size/shape where one is wider or longer than the other. There could be safety issues too and the web shows videos of some exploding like fireworks.

You could also weigh the batteries with an accurate scale and compare.

 

[audioguru]

Thank-you for posting the Energizer Applications Manual that explains:
1) My "good" 1.6V without load Lithium batteries are completely discharged because their open circuit voltage is less than 1.7V (but they work perfectly). Their short circuit current is 4.5A (pretty good for a "dead" battery).
2) My "bad" 1.8V without load Lithium batteries are normal. Their short circuit current is 4A.
All the new Lithium cells weigh 14 grams each. An Energizer AA alkaline cell weighs 23 grams.

I phoned Eveready in St Louis USA. They said, "Look on our website and at Energizer's website. We do not sell these batteries in North America. Send us a photo of the packaging and cells."
I bought the batteries at a new Target store in Canada. There is a review of them on You Tube and the Aussie said they are great, Mate.
Eveready/Energizer are sending me $5.00.

I think the Chinese manufacturer is using some rice powder instead of FeS2 in some of the batteries.

 

[jpanhalt]

No, no, no. Rice is sometimes supplemented with iron pyrophosphate, not iron disulfide. I guess it goes to show that you sometimes get what you pay for.

John

 

[audioguru]

The last time I used Eveready batteries was with a #6 dry cell about 55 years ago. It was a big heavy thing.

I have many bags of discharged AA alkaline cells. Some day I will take them to the hazardous waste dump. All the Duracell ones "best before 2017" are growing white whiskers. The Energizer cells look like new.

You sometimes get what you pay for?
A few years ago Energizer sold a new AA alkaline battery cell in Canada only. It was supposed to have titanium and produce more power longer. It cost more than their ordinary AA alkaline cell but it had exactly the same weight and spec's.

The Energizer size D Ni-MH cell is expensive but has a little AA cell inside. They do not make one with normal very high capacity.

 

[MrAl]

Hi,

I got fed up with "Energizer" which i think should be renamed "DeEnergizer" after their NiMH cells. I bought several cells and the self discharge was so bad you have to use them the same day you charge them or else they die off all by themselves.
I also bought one of their 15 minute chargers which cooks the cells so i had to modify it to charge in 30 minutes instead.
I wrote to DeEnergizer and told them about the upgrade and how it helped the cells, and they wrote back declaring that they could not accept the idea because they might already have that idea in the works.
Maybe a year later the power supply for the charger made a very loud "pop" that sounded like a diode blowing up inside the sealed enclosure (like a large wall wart). I did not use it that much in the few years i had it. Did not investigate what actually went wrong with the charger.

When i called them about the fast self discharge of the NiMH AA cells, they sent a coupon that would cover four new batteries. I went to Walmart and picked up 4 brand new AAA NiMH cells instead. When i went to the register, the gal borrowed my pen so she could fill out the form and never gave it back. When i tried the new cells, they had poor performance too. So now i dont buy Energizer anymore and i wont ever again. Ok, maybe if they make low self discharge cells

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Time for a joke: What happens when you put batteries in the Energizer Bunny backwards?

Spoiler: Click for Answer

It keeps coming and coming...

 

[ronsimpson]

I am getting so old I can't........do either.

Remember the 1.5V rechargeable batteries that are 1.25? and the 9V rechargeable batteries that are 7.5V? It took a long time to find 8.75V rechargeable.

 

[audioguru]

Energizer and most other name brand battery companies make low self-discharge Ni-MH batteries. They hold a charge for one year and work perfectly.

My Energizer Ni-MH battery charger is simply a limited current and a timer that turns off the current. It cooks battery cells that have a lower capacity than the timer and current setting or if the cells were not completely discharged.
When charging if the power fails then it starts the timer from the beginning when the power returns which also cooks the battery cells.

 

[MrAl]

Hi again,

KISS:
Thanks for the laugh this morning, i need something to wake me up today

Audioguru:
Oh i am happy to hear DeEnergizer came out with a low self discharge cell. That makes me think that they can call it low self discharge because a cell that does not hold any charge can not loose any charge even over long periods like 1 year (ha ha ha).
Seriously though, i wonder how they compare to Eneloops. Eneloops work pretty well and they also have the X Eneloops now too but i have not tried them as i dont believe the price is comparable to the slight increase in capacity.

I had problems with chargers too, so i decided to build my own from an old 15v regulated power supply i had built to replace the one for a scanner that i no longer use. It's a simple tapered charge charger. The current starts out at about 350ma and then tapers down to about 100ma (roughly) as the cells charge.
Disadvantage right now is that i made it to do 8 cells at at time so now i have to modify it to do other cell counts like 3 or 4 because i have some devices that use 3 and some that use 4, and shorting out 4 cell slots will increase the current too much. It's just a matter of changing one resistor but i havent gotten to it yet and i want to use a selector switch of course.
Works great with the 8 cells though and because the current runs down as they charge it wont overcharge them over a 12 hour period. Yes it's not perfect, but it works pretty well.

I also see more chargers on the web these days that dont look too bad. The only problem is, when we buy one of these chargers we are stuck with the charge regime that the designer decided would be good for the cells, and that isnt always good because they have not considered all possible modes of operation and cell conditions.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Speaking of chargers, I just bought the OPUS BT-C3100 https://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Opus BT-C3100 Software V2 UK.html

I just charged 4 AA NiMH cells, but haven't used them yet. The plan is 2 for a wireless mouse. I have 4 AAA NiMh batteries coming Friday mainly for use with a Bose QC-II headphones which uses 1 battery.

 

[audioguru]

Audioguru:
Oh i am happy to hear DeEnergizer came out with a low self discharge cell. .....
Seriously though, i wonder how they compare to Eneloops. Eneloops work pretty well and they also have the X Eneloops now too but i have not tried them as i dont believe the price is comparable to the slight increase in capacity.

Eneloops are made in Japan by Sanyo, who is now owned by Panasonic (I didn't know that until now). Energizer AA Ni-MH cells are also made in Japan by (?). Are the Energizer cells re-labelled Eneloops?
Energizer Ni-MH 9V batteries are made in Germany.
Recently I accidently bought cheaper Energizer AA Ni-MH cells "on sale" but they are new Lite capacity 1400mAh cells at the normal price. Maybe they are Eneloop Lite?

I had problems with chargers too

Have you ever charged a Ni-Cad cell at the same time as a Ni-MH cell? The Ni-Cad gets cool and the Ni-MH gets warm while charging then they both get hot when still charging but are fully charged.

One of My Ni-Cad cells charged to about 1.7V yesterday but it is 1.34V today and has not been used. Maybe it has some a-FeS2O3 inside instead of rice powder.

 

[MrAl]

Speaking of chargers, I just bought the OPUS BT-C3100 https://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Opus BT-C3100 Software V2 UK.html

I just charged 4 AA NiMH cells, but haven't used them yet. The plan is 2 for a wireless mouse. I have 4 AAA NiMh batteries coming Friday mainly for use with a Bose QC-II headphones which uses 1 battery.

Hi,

That is a very interesting looking charger, mostly for me because it looks like it does Li-ion 18650 cells too. I use 18650 cells on a very regular basis and recently even more than before, and i need to (ideally) charge up to 4 cells at a time.

I built a few of my own chargers but considered buying ready made chargers like that one too, but wondered if they would charge the cells the way i want them to be charged. For the Li-ion 18650's for example, i might like to charge at 1 amp per cell to 4.150v plus or minus 5mv most of the time, but would like to have the option to go to 2 amps at the same voltage.
So my question would be, can this charger be adjusted for at least the output voltage even if it wont do more than 1 amp per cell (i could live with 1 amp per cell probably but i like to be able to set the voltage myself)?

 

[MrAl]

Eneloops are made in Japan by Sanyo, who is now owned by Panasonic (I didn't know that until now). Energizer AA Ni-MH cells are also made in Japan by (?). Are the Energizer cells re-labelled Eneloops?
Energizer Ni-MH 9V batteries are made in Germany.
Recently I accidently bought cheaper Energizer AA Ni-MH cells "on sale" but they are new Lite capacity 1400mAh cells at the normal price. Maybe they are Eneloop Lite?


Have you ever charged a Ni-Cad cell at the same time as a Ni-MH cell? The Ni-Cad gets cool and the Ni-MH gets warm while charging then they both get hot when still charging but are fully charged.

One of My Ni-Cad cells charged to about 1.7V yesterday but it is 1.34V today and has not been used. Maybe it has some a-FeS2O3 inside instead of rice powder.

Hi,

Wow, 1.7v for a NiCd cell, i wonder if the cell is going bad or something. It's been a while though since i charged NiCd cells as i use NiMH for everything that does not use Li-ion now. My NiMH cells always go to 1.55v near the end of the charge cycle and the older ones that went higher were cheaper and pretty much junk and they are all in the recycled bin somewhere now.

Last time i used NiCd was many years ago when i used them for my cordless drill. I got sick of buying new cells to replace the old ones so i moved to Lead Acid for the cordless drill and have never been happier.
Oh yeah, i almost forgot, i have one emergency light that turns on when the power goes out, and that has two NiCd cells in it i think. One of my shavers might have NiCd's too, but the Li-ion shaver was the best one i ever had (Remington).