Earthing light fixtures?

[regulaz]

I'm located in New Delhi, the light fixtures i've measured to have some voltage on the frame when checked via multimeter. One lead to the frame of the fixture and one lead to a known earth point.

Is it a good idea to provide them with a ground wire?

oddly some fixtures have 0VAC on their frame. I wonder why all the fixtures aren't at 0?


Thanks

 

[MrAl]

Hello,

If the wiring was reversed for example then you'd see voltage on the cage.

 

[regulaz]

Hello,

If the wiring was reversed for example then you'd see voltage on the cage.

thanks for the tip. this is the kind of incandescent bulb that i'm looking at https://www.miniinthebox.com/e-to-g...cket-base-case-adapter-converter_p110091.html

if i reverse the bulb should that fix it?

 

[regulaz]

on one circuit breaker all bulb fixtures have this issue

while on another breaker only a particular light fixture on the circuit breaker has this issue.

 

[MrAl]

Hello,


I thought you meant the frame of the fixture itself. To fix that you have to dig into the wiring in the ceiling. The wires may be switched. Note this is just a possibility it could be something else. What voltage do you measure from the frame to a true earth ground, and what is your normal line voltage for the house?

 

[regulaz]

Hello,


I thought you meant the frame of the fixture itself. To fix that you have to dig into the wiring in the ceiling. The wires may be switched. Note this is just a possibility it could be something else. What voltage do you measure from the frame to a true earth ground, and what is your normal line voltage for the house?

i'm measuring 9 volts. one has 13 volts another 6 volts.

the system here is 240V

The frame is painted. the unpainted area is the bulb holder only. so im using that to measure the voltage.

 

[Sangoma]

Wiring regulations and practices vary from country to country.

Any exposed metal should be at ground potential, or it could be fatal (ie a washing machine used on a wet concrete floor with bare feet)

All out light fixtures are earthed.

We also have an earth leakage trip (RCD) which hopefully means that if a person accidentally formed a path between a live wire and ground, it would trip before serious harm was done.

You would also need to check if your supply includes an earth, if it does, is the earth good, and is the neutral at earth potential.

 

[Sangoma]

Those voltage could possibly be stray induced voltage in the meter leads and metal frame, they may or may not mean anything, still it needs to be checked

 

[regulaz]

Wiring regulations and practices vary from country to country.



You would also need to check if your supply includes an earth, if it does, is the earth good, and is the neutral at earth potential.

supply includes earth and it is good. it is working in all light and power sockets. i just noticed the light fixtures recently and they dont have earth.

neutral is fine it measures 0VAC when one lead is put in earth and one to neutral on the multimeter.

 

[regulaz]

Those voltage could possibly be stray induced voltage in the meter leads and metal frame, they may or may not mean anything, still it needs to be checked

that is what im wondering where should i start checking or should i just give them all a new earth connection and call it a day? maybe there is some safety issue which can be addressed before that?

 

[picbits]

Measure the current between the light fixture and ground. If it's below a couple of hundred microamps then it's probably stray induced voltage.

Make sure your meter is fused or at least put a small bulb in series with it just in case ....

 

[regulaz]

Measure the current between the light fixture and ground. If it's below a couple of hundred microamps then it's probably stray induced voltage.

Make sure your meter is fused or at least put a small bulb in series with it just in case ....

ill do that as soon as i get back. if its stray induced voltage then too it would require grounding? and howcome other circuits in the panel dont have stray voltage? probably some wiring issue? hot touching the ground? or shared neutrals in two circuits?

 

[picbits]

Generally if there isn't much current it shouldn't cause you a problem. It's good practise to earth and touchable metal anyway in case something does short out.

Google "inductive coupling" for answers as to why it happens.

 

[unclejed613]

if this is with the lamp running (on), you are measuring the voltage developed across the wiring resistance. some of it may be due to copper losses, but some of it may be from oxidized or loose connections. the copper losses aren't a safety hazard, but bad or oxidized connections will tend to get worse because of the heat developed, and can be a fire hazard.

 

[regulaz]

i did some more measurements, well the current is non existent but the voltage is high

the bulb holder is a little different it is E27. the neutral and live both have 2 pin plug type connecter and the outer shell is just a holder... useful for connecting to ground wire but it unconnected right now so it is odd to see any voltage on it.

it is 12VAC when plugged in straight and when reversed ranges from 15VAC and upto 80VAC. no current in it.

when the bulb (incandescent) is plugged in the earthed 3 prong power outlets show 12VAC up but no current.

a lot of stray voltage in the circuits doesnt seem right because there are other circuits which are at 0VAC measurement of the same age.
This could just give rise to unhealthy AC magnetic/electric fields and they are in the bedroom so not very good. (just read about inductive coupling).

 

[Sangoma]

i did some more measurements, well the current is non existent but the voltage is high

the bulb holder is a little different it is E27. the neutral and live both have 2 pin plug type connecter and the outer shell is just a holder... useful for connecting to ground wire but it unconnected right now so it is odd to see any voltage on it.

it is 12VAC when plugged in straight and when reversed ranges from 15VAC and upto 80VAC. no current in it.

when the bulb (incandescent) is plugged in the earthed 3 prong power outlets show 12VAC up but no current.

a lot of stray voltage in the circuits doesnt seem right because there are other circuits which are at 0VAC measurement of the same age.
This could just give rise to unhealthy AC magnetic/electric fields and they are in the bedroom so not very good. (just read about inductive coupling).

As there is very little current flowing, it isn't going to induce much.

You will find similar strays in many places, and they may well not be shown if you cut each meter lead down to 1", they could well be being picked up by the meter leads.

As for health problems, they have shown that people living near sub-stations and under high voltage pylons suffer no ill effects.

But if it is a major worry, construct a Faraday cage around the bed ( a god excuse to stop the XYL escaping????) or move to the provinces where there is no electricity.
In other words, you won't escape it!

 

[regulaz]

As there is very little current flowing, it isn't going to induce much.

You will find similar strays in many places, and they may well not be shown if you cut each meter lead down to 1", they could well be being picked up by the meter leads.

As for health problems, they have shown that people living near sub-stations and under high voltage pylons suffer no ill effects.

But if it is a major worry, construct a Faraday cage around the bed ( a god excuse to stop the XYL escaping????) or move to the provinces where there is no electricity.
In other words, you won't escape it!

im not sure about studies but me and some houses around here wake up like clockwork when someone turns on their waterpumps in the morning to fill up their overhead tanks as water supply comes in at 4am-8am.. before 4am i sleep like a log and after 8 am too.

whether the stray voltage has current or not id like to not see it so it is ruled out as an issue causing sleep problems.

so that im sure other peoples electricity sharing the same bus panel with me isnt causing issues in my homes electrical wiring and creating fields i could do without.

more importantly my homes wiring is in order which i doubt it is.

 

[regulaz]

if this is with the lamp running (on), you are measuring the voltage developed across the wiring resistance. some of it may be due to copper losses, but some of it may be from oxidized or loose connections. the copper losses aren't a safety hazard, but bad or oxidized connections will tend to get worse because of the heat developed, and can be a fire hazard.

it is a relatively new installation around 5 years old but done by amateurs who were pretending to be professional unfortunately. but you're right this is with the lamp on.. incandescent bulb on E27 type.

 

[Sangoma]

im not sure about studies but me and some houses around here wake up like clockwork when someone turns on their waterpumps in the morning to fill up their overhead tanks as water supply comes in at 4am-8am.. before 4am i sleep like a log and after 8 am too.

whether the stray voltage has current or not id like to not see it so it is ruled out as an issue causing sleep problems.

so that im sure other peoples electricity sharing the same bus panel with me isnt causing issues in my homes electrical wiring and creating fields i could do without.

more importantly my homes wiring is in order which i doubt it is.

I wonder if the water pumps or running water makes any sound or vibration?

I wonder what your power plugs look like, 2 or 3 flat pins, round pins , or 3 squarish pins?

How are the lights fed, are the wires in a metal conduit, plastic conduit, or twin and earth in no conduit?

Is your water feed pipe metal or plastic?

How far are you from the nearest power company earth (either sub or mini sub, or 11kV-240V pole mounted transformer with a proper earth)

Do you have an electric railway line nearby?

Are all the light switches in the live line and not the neutral line?

Safety yes, but sleep problems? I think that if that were a cause of sleep problems, half the world would not sleep.

Good to get your house up to standard though

 

[regulaz]

I wonder if the water pumps or running water makes any sound or vibration?

I wonder what your power plugs look like, 2 or 3 flat pins, round pins , or 3 squarish pins?

How are the lights fed, are the wires in a metal conduit, plastic conduit, or twin and earth in no conduit?

Is your water feed pipe metal or plastic?

How far are you from the nearest power company earth (either sub or mini sub, or 11kV-240V pole mounted transformer with a proper earth)

Do you have an electric railway line nearby?

Are all the light switches in the live line and not the neutral line?

Safety yes, but sleep problems? I think that if that were a cause of sleep problems, half the world would not sleep.

Good to get your house up to standard though

running water makes no sound because its pumped directly into the overhead tanks from the supply. the pumps are noisy vibrate a bit but easily ignored.. i mean people around me snore 10x louder than the pumps

they are three round pins.

plastic conduit. light fixtures have no earth wires running through them. power sockets and light sockets all have a separate earth wire running through the conduit

i have the subway running around 100 metres away but it has an entirely separate power station to power it from where we get power about 20 miles apart.

i'll have to check if they are all on live and not neutral... but couldnt you wire the light fixtures either way? because E27 bulb holder allows that.. have a look at it.

haha i think half the world is insomnia prone already

yeah i hope to fix this soon... i dont get much time off. i'm taking some time out specially for this.

edit: i'll have to check if the busbars from the transformer have proper earthing, but it is around 30 metres away and my earth goes to that buspanel.