Early warning system required Please!!

[markelectro]

Hello all,hope you can help.

Went out for the day with the wife and kids my son went to get his bike out to find that it had been stolen :-( funny thing is we are actually blaming ourselves for it,seems that these days things do have to be tied down.

Anyway My request!!!

I thought of putting up my drive a couple of PIR's that could be converted or added to a circuit that could give out a warning to anyone that does feel the need to walk up the drive and into the back garden.I know that we can buy PIR's to control lighting but I have never seen what I am looking for.I think the warning system could give out maybe a voice message to the unwanted thieves and an audible signal to me If I'm in the House.

I promise to you all this is a genuine request for help to stop these people and I would really appreciate any thoughts and advice on this.

Thanks Mark

 

[ericgibbs]

hi Mark,
Couple of points, how much electro/techo knowledge do you have, do you want to buy or make.

Can you tell us where you are posting from.

A recent disgrace to our fair City of Portsmouth.

A German guy had been cycling around the globe for the past few years, bandit country, civil wars, the lot.
Gets to Portsmouth, his bike is pinched within the first 24 hours!

 

[markelectro]

Eric
Thanks for the timely response.
I am in the UK. My level of skill in Electronics at the moment is beginner and I suppose I will have to rely on someone who is more advanced than I am for the advice.
I am in the middle of a Pic. programming course so I have a little knowledge in this area.If the circuitry can be drawn up using Livewire then I will test it out using this and develpment boards.

I could buy if I could find such a system but I am willing to build myself also.

Typical of the thugs in the Uk,Why not spend what time they do have advance their brain and trying out somting new,just like I am with Electronics.

Regards Mark

hi Mark,
Couple of points, how much electro/techo knowledge do you have, do you want to buy or make.

Can you tell us where you are posting from.

A recent disgrace to our fair City of Portsmouth.

A German guy had been cycling around the globe for the past few years, bandit country, civil wars, the lot.
Gets to Portsmouth, his bike is pinched within the first 24 hours!

 

[ericgibbs]

Hi Mark,
One of the easist ways is buy a 150/500Watt outdoor security light.
Also buy a mains plug power supply adaptor, say 12/15Vdc 1amp and a 3pin free mains socket,
the type you find on the end of a mains extension cable.

Inside the security light back cover you will find a 4 way screw terminal block.

The Usual L,N and E, the 4th terminal has a wire coming from the sensor relay to the lamp.
Wire the extension cable 3pin socket, with a length of mains cable to suit your installation.

Connect the free end of this extender cable as follows.
The BLACK(neutral] to the 'N' of the security lamp internal block and the GREEN/YELLOW(earth) to the internal block.
The RED(line) wire of the extension cable to the 4th terminal, [the one with lamp and relay].

Now everytime the Security light PIR relay is operated, the extension cable is switched ON.
You can plug in the power supply adaptor into one socket [to give a dc supply to an alarm] and/or a table lamp into another socket.

I think I would be better if I drew a diagram and posted that.
Give me an hour.

 

[ericgibbs]

hi,

Look at this drawing, if in doubt ask.

The 12Vdc 1A psu is for driving buzzers/sirens electronics, etc
[you could plug in a mains powered alarm if you wish, the psu is optional]

The advantage with this method is, you get a security light and an internal alarm.

EDIT: You could of course just buy a PIR with a light switching output, but the price difference is small.
Also, when anyone triggers the light on, even during daylight hours, its a deterrent.

Is this OK?

 

[markelectro]

Eric
Sounds an interesting suggestion.

just trying to understand your diagram, Please correct me if I'm wrong with the parts list-

240v security lamp (for the light sorce and the pir)
240v extension lead with multiple sockets (to wire into the Security lamp)
12v psu (for any add on electronics)

The 240v extension to wire into the security light giving a PIR. switchable extension with sockets and the the 12v psu to sounders ETC.


Please correct me if I miss understand your explanation.

I was also thinking how does any intruder that comes during the day know that they have been spotted?I have seen on some Cars and motor bikes a system where a Voice is sounded warning that they have been noticed.Is this Possible?


Regards Mark

hi,

Look at this drawing, if in doubt ask.

The 12Vdc 1A psu is for driving buzzers/sirens electronics, etc
[you could plug in a mains powered alarm if you wish, the psu is optional]

The advantage with this method is, you get a security light and an internal alarm.

EDIT: You could of course just buy a PIR with a light switching output, but the price difference is small.
Also, when anyone triggers the light on, even during daylight hours, its a deterrent.

Is this OK?

 

[ericgibbs]

hi Mark,
You could use an old tape recorder thats rigged to play a voice alarm when the extension socket is powered due to a PIR detection.

You can also buy small devices that you can record a short message and have it play back when powered, there is a barking dog one available.

As you have a PIR powered extension lead, anything is possible, please dont plug in a electric fire or other high powered device.

A table lamp can be plugged in for night use, if you dont want an audible alarm.

 

[markelectro]

hi Mark,
You could use an old tape recorder thats rigged to play a voice alarm when the extension socket is powered due to a PIR detection.

You can also buy small devices that you can record a short message and have it play back when powered, there is a barking dog one available.

As you have a PIR powered extension lead, anything is possible, please dont plug in a electric fire or other high powered device.

A table lamp can be plugged in for night use, if you dont want an audible alarm.

Eric

Many thanks for the input,I will purchase the parts and see what comes of it.

Regards Mark

 

[TekNoir]

I am in the UK. My level of skill in Electronics at the moment is beginner and I suppose I will have to rely on someone who is more advanced than I am for the advice.

I know that this is an electronics forum, but may I suggest the simplest, cheapest, least time-consuming option?

Purchase a chain and a bicycle lock and keep it locked down when not in use.

(My second suggestion would be to keep the bicycle indoors when not in use.)

 

[markelectro]

I know that this is an electronics forum, but may I suggest the simplest, cheapest, least time-consuming option?

Purchase a chain and a bicycle lock and keep it locked down when not in use.

(My second suggestion would be to keep the bicycle indoors when not in use.)

The big question to all this is why should we go to great lengths to secure items from these people.I did blame myself for this but then thought NO!! why should I after all I did not ask them to walk freely around my garden so they are to blame in the end.

One thing is I have learned is to never take anything for granted.You are right with your suggestion but Electronics will work for everything in the Garden and not just a Bicycle.

 

[markelectro]

Eric as come up with a good idea but can someone think of a more Electronic based solution?
I was thinking along the lines of the type of alarms in some cars and motor bikes that give a voice warning that a person as been recognised as being too close to the vehicle. I think something like this could be made up?

Regards Mark

 

[House0Fwax]

It looks like this is just the sort of unit that you are talking about.

http://www.elitesecuritysupplies.com/talking_pir_perimeter_alarms.html
Best Talking PIR alarms for perimeter security by elitesecuritysupplies.com

 

[picasm]

markelectro,
The solution offered by ericgibbs is the easiest and cheapest.

The only problem with your idea to add an warning sound is that you would have to keep the IR sensor sensitivity low as they often false trigger in wind/rain and could annoy you or your neighbors.

If you want to try a more expensive/sophisticated solution, you could buy a cheap security camera, an old pc, a cheap tv card or DVR card from ebay and some motion detection software (some free versions available for Linux such as Zoneminder: https://www.zoneminder.com/ )
This type of solution could for example send you an email when it detects activity in a user-defined area,you could view it remotely and have a permanent record of the intruder.

 

[markelectro]

It looks like this is just the sort of unit that you are talking about.

http://www.elitesecuritysupplies.com/talking_pir_perimeter_alarms.html
Best Talking PIR alarms for perimeter security by elitesecuritysupplies.com

Perfect I think

Many thanks for that

 

[markelectro]

hi Mark,
You could use an old tape recorder thats rigged to play a voice alarm when the extension socket is powered due to a PIR detection.

You can also buy small devices that you can record a short message and have it play back when powered, there is a barking dog one available.

As you have a PIR powered extension lead, anything is possible, please dont plug in a electric fire or other high powered device.

A table lamp can be plugged in for night use, if you dont want an audible alarm.

Eric

Seems to me that this device will be usuble to your sugestions-

**broken link removed**

https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2007/05/va1-240instructionswith4poleconnector.pdf


Regards Mark

 

[TekNoir]

I don't know how they operate in the U.K., but here in the U.S. the smart criminals just wait until you are gone and then ignore your alarm. (The ones who are smarter than that just circumvent the alarm whether you're still there or not.) Locking things up is the best (though not foolproof) method of protecting one's goods.

It isn't about asking "why should we have to do such things". It is more like breathing, of which most people don't question the particulars. You breathe to live, just as you lock stuff up so it doesn't stolen. There will be some people who will always steal. Crime will always exist, no matter where you live.

When I was younger, some of my miscreant friends would have laughed themselves silly if they heard a talking alarm.

A brief amount of research into the world history of physical security would reveal alarms (whether person-to-person or 21st century electronic systems) to be mostly ineffective and usable as a secondary measure at most. An alarm on its own does very little to protect valuables. An activated house alarm with the front door wide open (or unlocked) will fail to protect your house. The primary method of protecting one's valuables has been and always will be some manner of confinement. We've come a long way from posting a contingent of guards around a small wooden box and the crudest of locks to having twelve foot thick bank vaults, biometric locking mechanisms, and electronic perimeter fencing. Things only continue to advance with physical security. Alarms will always be a supplementary precaution.

If you truly need an answer to your "whys", here you go: if you don't, someone may steal it. It really is as simple as that.

Just my two pence.

 

[HarveyH42]

Locks only make it less convienent, they just come back later with tools to cut locks or chain, break windows or whatever. The only thing that deters these weak ass bastards is that they don't like to be watched. Video cameras whether they are fuctional or not, do a lot to change behavior. Unfortunately there is no perfect method, thieves almost always go for the simplest and easiest. Most won't climb a fence, takes time and effort, don't know what's on the other side, don't know who will be passing by when leaving. It's too obvious that they don't belong.

Anyway, if your neighborhood is getting so bad that everything of value must be physically secured when unattend, you might look into video, it's not too expensive anymore. You'll know who and when you have unwanted visitors, and have something to show police. I start off with an old webcam and a cheap VCR, just to catch a neighbor stealing my newspaper...

 

[ericgibbs]

hi Harvey,

I agree, its virtually impossible to block a determined 'scum bag' its the opportunist thief that is deterred with a simple alarm system

I use CCTV [ the UK has the most CCTV coverage/person in the world] with the camera outputs into an old VCR, [hidden]

Todate, we have caught two groups of criminals.
First lot were going from house to house, on Friday nights, about midnight stealing the money left out for the early morning milk delivery, weekly money collection.

Two other guys, who had stolen a car, late pm, crashed it into a pavement,
one of them ran and hid up my driveway, took off his coat and baseball hat and hid them in the driveway.
Police came, asked for the video tape, while we were talking, the guy came back for his coat, we watched him on the CCTV!!,
he was nicked.

Never did get my tapes back, what a 'cop' out.

 

[TekNoir]

For what it's worth, I use CCTV at my home to deter theft. (It's also very nice for aiding the police after the fact.) I also keep everything that can go indoors inside. I lock my home (and double check all of the locks, including windows, regularly) and set the (monitored) alarm when I leave.

Despite all of this, my outdoor dog (which was attached to a run-line) was stolen a couple years ago, along with four other neighbor's dogs in the same neighborhood. They waited until the dog had run momentarily out of direct view of the cameras. It's only took (literally) seconds. They were never caught.

I'm a huge advocate of video surveillance; once again as a secondary (or tertiary) measure, in addition to containment. Nothing on its own is perfect, but by using multiple approaches in order to tackle a problem, you can come close. It is also important to tailor the security to each particular situation. (An example being that if you live near where trains run (or any other loud noise), then an unmonitored alarm system becomes a much less viable option.)

In a fairly related statement: The Discovery Channel has a show here in the U.S. that makes for a pretty good, educational watch, It Takes a Thief.

The premise is that two convicted burglars check out a neighborhood and find a home where the owner agrees to be entered (with the stipulation that everything taken is returned). They break in, take everything valuable, and leave. The owner (and family) watch on hidden cameras. Then everything gets returned and the two "hosts" show the homeowner how to better secure the property and installs/fixes anything that needs to be done. At the end of the show, the two burglars come back a random number of weeks later (without the homeowners knowledge) and tape themselves trying to break in again. They then reveal the new tape and the results of the attempt to the owner and his family.

It makes for entertaining and educational television.

 

[ericgibbs]

hi,

>> The Discovery Channel has a show here in the U.S. that makes for a pretty good, educational watch,

Similar TV program in the UK, they just use one ex-criminal, who now runs a security business.

The risks that some people take with their homes is just inviting trouble. Keys under the door mat, cat flaps, etc............

As you may know, we cannot use force against an intruder, else we get charged with assault!.

The joke is when you get someone causing grief on your property, you call the police, who come eventually, [sometimes]
and they say "we cannot do anything about the case unless we catch them in the act", and the joke bit
is they say, "if they come back call us again"...... endless loop,,,, just another 'cop' out from the paper work.