Continue to Site

Welcome to our site!

Electro Tech is an online community (with over 170,000 members) who enjoy talking about and building electronic circuits, projects and gadgets. To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.

  • Welcome to our site! Electro Tech is an online community (with over 170,000 members) who enjoy talking about and building electronic circuits, projects and gadgets. To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.

Eagle - Hints & Tricks

Status
Not open for further replies.

Boncuk

New Member
Hi All,

I'm observing an increasing number of posts concerned with Eagle problems. First of all the full word for the abbreviation EAGLE. It stands for what it really is, an Easily ApplicableGraphicLayoutEditor.

As any software, Eagle of course has some bugs (mainly the autorouter). Getting used to them working with Eagle is fun, even creating new devices.

If you need a sophisticated package don't hesitate to send me the data sheet or a link. I'll be happy to make it for you.

Today's trick: You intend to put some copy protection on your circuit board. A stamp can be easily removed, but how about a component? That's what we're going to do today.

Step 1: Create your logo either on the solder, component or top layer as a package. Use at least one pin for it. The accepted minimum pin diameter is 0.01mm and the drill size 0.001mm. We're going to use that as a connection to the logo. Select octagon as pad shape. Name it "1".

Step 2: Make a symbol just with one pin and nothing else. Use lenght "point". Name it also "1".

Step 3: Create the device using the symbol and advice package, e.g. "logo-s" (logo on the solder side). Connect the pin.

Step 4: Done - Save

Place the device somewhere within your schematic, best on another component pin. It will automatically connected to that net. (Don't forget where you put it!) Do that after the schematic and the board are finished to find a place adjacent to a trace without problems.

Switch to "board" and the logo is there, outside the dimension layer. Pull it to the place you want. Now you will have an air wire to the next trace with the same net name. Disable the "unrouted" (layer19) layer for a clean print. Try to erase the logo on the board. No way to do that! You must delete it in the schematic, and ONLY YOU know where to find it.

Have fun

Regard to All

Hans
 
Last edited:
I have never tried this, but couldn't one use the information tool, find what the logo or net is called, then use the "show" command in the schematic to highlight it?

John

Edit: Another workaround is to highlight, cut, then paste the board on a fresh screen. That breaks the link to the schematic and allows deletion of components. John
 
Last edited:
Hi,

I am just curious, did you switch to Eagle 5 or still using the old version (4.16). I am not sure if to go to 5.0 as I know I can't go back once I convert the data to 5.0

Petr
 
I have never tried this, but couldn't one use the information tool, find what the logo or net is called, then use the "show" command in the schematic to highlight it?

John

Edit: Another workaround is to highlight, cut, then paste the board on a fresh screen. That breaks the link to the schematic and allows deletion of components. John

Hi John,

the first way won't work. How can you highlight a pin on another pin? Placing the pin of the logo on another lets them "melt" together, and highlighting wouldn't do anything. E.g. placing the pin on a GND symbol it will automatically display GND, which is correct.

The second way however is the only one to delete unwanted elements. But one must have the idea to do this. Not being able to delete an element which is not visible in the schematic will lead to the assumption that there is a real protection.

Hans
 
Hi,

I am just curious, did you switch to Eagle 5 or still using the old version (4.16). I am not sure if to go to 5.0 as I know I can't go back once I convert the data to 5.0

Petr

Hi petrv,

I can't see whom you asked. Anyway, I'm using both 3.55 and 4.16. I prefer using 3.55 because I have made hundreds of new devices (mainly electromechanical) using it and so I know where to find them.

Switching to version 5.x is as switching from any lower version to a higher one. The higher versions of Eagle are never downwards compatible.

To try version 5.x I suggest to make copies of your 4.16 version projects in a separate folder and see what changes are made in 5.x.

Hans
 
Hi John,

How can you highlight a pin on another pin? Placing the pin of the logo on another lets them "melt" together, and highlighting wouldn't do anything. E.g. placing the pin on a GND symbol it will automatically display GND, which is correct.

Hans

Hi Hans, I need to actually test your method. Initially, I keyed on the words "device" and "net". They would have names that could be found with the information tool. Of course, the user would need to know to show all.

I suspect the procedure to copy a board may be fairly well known. I use it is when I have a board that doesn't fill the entire space available on the PCB blank. I make multiple copies or add other boards to one "brd" file and then print that out for my photo positive.

As for protecting a board design, doesn't copyright cover that? One might consider inserting the copyright symbol.

John
 
As for protecting a board design, doesn't copyright cover that? One might consider inserting the copyright symbol.

John

Hi John,

respecting copy right is something for honest people. I've never seen a legal copy of windows xp here in Thailand. Even some semiconductor manufacturers have taken Thailand off the list for free samples. Bad for me since I'm German.

I purchased a rotary saw the other day and after two hours of operation the motor went up in flames. The device had the emblem of "Talon", a famous tool manufacturer in Australia. Very much to my surprise Talon never made rotary saws.

Anyway I will think about a more effective way to protect a circuit design. So far I've made a logo with two pins placed on two pins of the schematic - one at each end of the net. If the logo is removed the trace will be removed too - inivisible to the copier - not leaving an air wire, but a missing trace for an important function (e.g. RS pin of an LC-display) will screw up the entire board. Debugging will be impossible since the backward annotation was disabled by copying.

I'll work out a solution which is difficult to trick, if at all.

Hans
 
Last edited:
Good luck. From a philosophical standpoint, I think protection by design is eventually futile. Just look at the years of development that went into development of security for Windows. John
 
Good luck. From a philosophical standpoint, I think protection by design is eventually futile. Just look at the years of development that went into development of security for Windows. John

I agree. The OP should consider the fact that someone who wants to steal a design will not be concerned with Eagle tricks (they wont even use it!).. just go into the Gerber files and wipe out any logo or anything else they want. After all, gerbers must be generated for the PCB to be manufactured and that's where the design is most vulnerable. There is software to edit Gerbers directly... why bother with logo tricks!

Send me your design, I'll send it back to you without your logo and with some of my own stuff in it. :)
 
Last edited:
This may be a little OT, but since the title was hint & tricks, maybe it is not too far off.

One thing I would like to see is a library of packages. There already are many packages available as part of devices that can be copied, but finding the right one can be difficult. I envision a collaborative project with one person (do I hear a volunteer, Hans?) collecting them for submission. I would certainly be willing to send some of my favorites to whomever wants to organize it.

John
 
There is a pretty comprehensive package library, called smd-ipc.lbr. More on smd-special.lbr.
 
"Never mind" (Gilda Radner, circa 1980, SNL) :D Simply had not bothered to look at those. Thanks. John
 
I agree. The OP should consider the fact that someone who wants to steal a design will not be concerned with Eagle tricks (they wont even use it!).. just go into the Gerber files and wipe out any logo or anything else they want. After all, gerbers must be generated for the PCB to be manufactured and that's where the design is most vulnerable. There is software to edit Gerbers directly... why bother with logo tricks!

Send me your design, I'll send it back to you without your logo and with some of my own stuff in it. :)

Hi Optikon,

you might be right, but I must direct you to one important point: the Eagle file goes before the Gerber file, which is created on the basis of information Eagle provides. If an information is missing the result will be a faulty PCB. Of course, knowing that just a "cheap" little logo messes up the design if missing must be known before "correcting" - otherwise a null function board.

Editing the Gerber file will only be successful if the sequence is correct: Copy the original file --> convert to Gerber --> make the necessary changes.

Some years ago I had to make an air data computer for a customer using lots of toluol, a highly explosive thinner for printing colours. The design was a unicate and my copy protection was two different versions of the schematic. Also combining several XOR gates for the function of a simple OR-gate makes it more difficult to grasp that stuff. :D

Hans


BTW: Nothing is impossible - TOYOTA
 
Tips for through hole board layout of SS

I am not an expert PCB layout person.
The following works for me.

Create board using the 8 mil defaults and have it pass ERC and *DRC.
Then change the following.

Restring-Pads Bottom to 15 mil
Restring-Pads Top to 10 mil **
Restring-Pads Vias Outer 15 (esp for DIY boards)​
Fix the DRC errors.

Increase all 6 box values in "Clearance-Different Signal" by steps of 3 to 5 mil for several passes, run DRC between each pass. Greater spacing makes the board easier to solder. I shoot for between 15 and 20 mils. Some errors will be unfixable such as traces between pads and the distance between the edges of a solder jumper. When you encounter these errors approve them in the DRC Errors dialog.

When finished you will have a board that is easy to solder and modify because it has both large easy to solder pads and generous spacing.

Layout is very much an art. Each time I revisit a layout I find a few things that can be improved. At some point it is good enough but you can take it as far as you like.

Note:
* Turn off tstop and bstop layers when doing DRC.
** Does not matter for SS boards. For DS boards I use 10 mil restring because it makes it easier to run traces between pads. Generaly top pads are are only soldered if you use them instead of a via. In general only diodes and resistors can be soldered on the top layer. If you do this, note each top connection in the assembly section of your project description in Eagle.
 
Last edited:
Hi Optikon,
Editing the Gerber file will only be successful if the sequence is correct: Copy the original file --> convert to Gerber --> make the necessary changes.

I hope Optikon will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that's exactly what he meant. It is easier to just edit the Gerber after exporting/converting from Eagle.

On the one hand it's a case of a lock which will only keep out the honest people. It's based on security through obscurity (where you're hoping the potential cracker doesn't know or care enough to get around it) and that's not a good security model.

On the other hand, no lock is unpickable. So as a basic measure it isn't a bad idea. However, if you're worried about copyright, just don't release the files in an editable format. I guess since in the end anyone could just copy a file by hand, that means don't release copyright-encumbered information if you're worried that it will be copied, since a suitably motivated copier will always be able to copy the design, even if only by hand.


Torben

[Edit: I just want to say that I think the "Tips and Tricks" idea is a really good one. I'd like to thanks Hans for putting in the time. I would like to see more.]
 
Last edited:
Hi Optikon,

you might be right, but I must direct you to one important point: the Eagle file goes before the Gerber file, which is created on the basis of information Eagle provides. If an information is missing the result will be a faulty PCB. Of course, knowing that just a "cheap" little logo messes up the design if missing must be known before "correcting" - otherwise a null function board.

Editing the Gerber file will only be successful if the sequence is correct: Copy the original file --> convert to Gerber --> make the necessary changes.

Some years ago I had to make an air data computer for a customer using lots of toluol, a highly explosive thinner for printing colours. The design was a unicate and my copy protection was two different versions of the schematic. Also combining several XOR gates for the function of a simple OR-gate makes it more difficult to grasp that stuff. :D

Hans


BTW: Nothing is impossible - TOYOTA

I agree that a basic protection is a good idea just so that at least it is not *easy* to steal / copy but again, once your design is in gerber formats, the eagle software and protection schemes have nothing to do with the design security any longer.

If you send out a design out of your building to a PCB house for manufacture, there is no way you can guarantee it's security. In order to remove your logo and preserve net connectivity / electrical functionality, one does not require the Eagle software. It can all be done at the Gerber level.
 
Hi All,
....
This is a great idea; hopefully we will feed this thread, and it will continue to grow...

There is a pretty comprehensive package library, called smd-ipc.lbr. More on smd-special.lbr.
Thanks for that. There is also the IC-package.lbr library for through hole parts. A big part of learning EAGLE is knowing which library to look in. I keep meaning to put all the connectors I use in one library, so I can find them without hunting...

...
Fix the DRC errors.

When finished you will have a board that is easy to solder and modify because it has both large easy to solder pads and generous spacing.
...
Some great advice there. I do much the same, but don't worry about the errors. The extra clearance works well for ground pours...

I am not an expert PCB layout person....

Layout is very much an art. Each time I revisit a layout I find a few things that can be improved. At some point it is good enough but you can take it as far as you like.

Couldn't agree more, but would add that it is helpful to study boards produced by others. I recall you (3V0) using an analogy to painting, and thought it well stated. :)
I think the 'empty cup' approach (I am always a beginner,) keeps one on the path of learning, and discovery.
Henry Ford said:
Anyone who stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty. Anyone who keeps learning stays young. The greatest thing in life is to keep your mind young.

I try to always come to projects with a beginner's mind, however my pride-fullness still deprives me of learning, at times...
Generaly top pads are are only soldered if you use them instead of a via. In general only diodes and resistors can be soldered on the top layer. If you do this, note each top connection in the assembly section of your project description in Eagle.

In addition, the machined IC sockets work well when you need to solder IC pins on the top layer.

The tough components on a double sided board are connectors, such as the molex, which many use as an ICSP cable, and which have some connections on the top traces. For these, I add vias right next to the pads and solder a wire before placing the connector.
 
Last edited:
EAGLE hints & tricks

Send me your design, I'll send it back to you without your logo and with some of my own stuff in it. :)

Hi Optikon,

I'm presently busy designing a rocket launch controller for a member of this forum. I want to add some extra features like a ripple launching circuit. (No good terrorist fires a single rocket. :D) Not even the Warsaw pact countries messed around with a single SAM (Surface to Air Missile). They always fired salvoes of a minimum of two.

In the meanwhile you might prepare for a good way debugging a PCB after you applied changes to the copyright logo. Of course you can change the design. The other question would be: Is the circuit's function impaired by the changes? I'll take special care of that - just one important missing ground connection will do.

Maybe I get some help from CadSoft. Eagle 5.0 has a new function: "LOCK" and I'll study the function well.

BTW, I didn't expect such a lot of replies and the start of a - like I think - good and useful discussion.

As soon as I get this project done I'll turn towards the Eagle problem again.

Kind regards

Hans
 
EAGLE hints & tricks

Today: two packages ...

for those who might need them.

Here are two transistors not commonly used, the VHF-Power-Transistor BF244 and a high power switching MosFet APT20M11JVR.

The BF244 has a SOT-123 package and the APT20M11JVR has a SOT-227 package.

The dimension contours are averaged according to the minimum and maximum values of the data sheets.

**broken link removed**

Attached are two libraries: TRANS-POWER-MOSFET.lbr and TRANS-PWR-VHF.lbr (zipped)

Note: The libaries were created using Eagle version 3.55. They can directly be imported to version 4.16, for version 5.0 they must go through version 4.16 prior import.

Boncuk
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest threads

New Articles From Microcontroller Tips

Back
Top