Discouraging Forum Comments

[Jon Wilder]

I see this time after time...someone posts "I wanna build XYZ out of a XXX microcontroller". Only to be met with responses in the nature of "You can buy one for (some really cheap amount) from this place online".

Why do we feel the need to do this? Isn't the point of building something rather buying it for the fun of doing the project? Why must we discourage those who have a desire to build something rather than buy it?

 

[4pyros]

Most of the time we don't know if the OP is in it for the love of electronics or money.
I other words we don't know if they want to learn electronics or are just trying to save a buck.

 

[MikeMl]

I frequently ask "Build or Buy"?

 

[Wade Hassler]

I see this time after time...someone posts "I wanna build XYZ out of a XXX microcontroller". Only to be met with responses in the nature of "You can buy one for (some really cheap amount) from this place online".

Why do we feel the need to do this? Isn't the point of building something rather buying it for the fun of doing the project? Why must we discourage those who have a desire to build something rather than buy it?

The question (why not buy?) is a fair one: lots of responders are engineers and engineering is largely motivated by economics.
It can be asked with more or less tact, though, for sure.

 

[cowboybob]

It is often the case that we can't discern the OP's real desire and, more importantly, their level of expertise.

"I want to build a transistor amplifier..." that morphs into "What I meant was that I want to build a transistor" in subsequent posts.

 

[ericgibbs]

When the OP's opening post is ambiguous, I use a similar response to MikeMl, hoping that will get the OP into a dialogue and find out what the OP is really asking.

E

 

[Wp100]

Also the answer could be borne out of experience and we a trying to save the person hours of headbanging and frustration.

A very common newbie question is 'I want to build my own Pic or AVR Programmer' and many of us know how problematic that can be, so a few dollars spent on the right tool is money very well spent.

 

[large_ghostman]

This is a fair point though, many times I have seen time again where the OP states they want to build and yet the response is along the lines of there is no point to build it,you can buy it cheaper.
To be fair most things can be purchased now way cheaper than you can build them for. But for many the point is in the learning, its just a view but when I first joined it felt like a community of people who enjoyed building things for fun, over time it seemed to morph into a forum for engineers to discuss technical detail.
Dont get me wrong everything changes and change is often good.
The place I normally hang out is more like ETO 3 or so years ago, except there you would be shot for suggesting something is purchased lol.
interesting question though.

 

[jpanhalt]

I would say that anyone who is fiddling with MCU's and is discouraged by someone suggesting an alternative, will never complete the project. Maybe it is a useful litmus test.

John

 

[JimB]

Often, requests from newbies are about something which is way beyond their current knowledge and resources. If all that they want is the device which they are trying to build, something like a 2KVA mains inverter, then the answer is to go and buy one.

If however the item to be built is a didactic exercise, then fair enough try and help them. But often as not, the whole thing ends in tears and futility because they do not have the critical mass of knowledge, experience and resources to see the thing to completion.

LG said:

The place I normally hang out is more like ETO 3 or so years ago, except there you would be shot for suggesting something is purchased lol.

JimB asks:
Would you care to tell us where that place is located?

JimB

 

[Musicmanager]

As a newbie on this forum, can I add my two penny worth ?

Although recently retired from teaching music to 11- 18 year olds, I entered education late as I originally trained as an electrician in the days when training was more college bound than on the job as it is now. I did one 3 month module called 'electronics' most of which I can't remember now and would have been very different then anyway, ie. in those an LED was something you did with a donkey or a willing blonde !
Since retiring I've got gradually more and more bored and looking for something to do my son asked me to try and make a delay timer for one of our machines because it had a mechanical (clockwork) timer which was becoming more and more unreliable. Sounded interesting, so I did some research and eventually purchased a Velleman delay timer kit and assembled it. It worked, but if the delay was set for more than a few minutes the delay varied significantly because the whole thing was based on a 555 timer chip pulsing on a capacitor and no two passes of the same setting were the same. My further research for a solution led me to ETO and a couple of ' Most Helpful Members' who explained the reasons for the variations I was getting and recommended using a microcontroller based plan which scared the hell out of meat the time, especially when I saw the detail of the programming of the 16F628A.
However, since then with help, I've built one, programmed it and it works. I've created a system with a rotary switch for selecting a choice of 5 specific time periods and set up a LED based indicator system for each setting.

Some of this has been achieved by my experimenting and research and careful thought but, more especially, much of it has been achieved as a result of my questions and the response of some very helpful people on here. ETO is a godsend to people like me. I'm not interested in financial gain from my knowledge, indeed, I'm only too aware of the limitations of all I'm ever likely to learn. But the prospect of a new challenge with the help of some 'Most Helpful Members' when I get completely foxed is worth it's weight in pure gold.

My next project is to build a precision timer that has a 7 segment display hh:mm. And the only reason I'm doing that is because I haven't a clue how to go about it yet.

Please don't change a thing guys, it's just marvelous as it is !!

 

[large_ghostman]

Finishing a project isnt always a waste of time, again alot depends on many factors such as knowledge. Many fail because they expect the cost in both time and money to be far less than reality, just because you can buy something from china at say £10 dosnt mean you can make it for twice that!
Sometimes I add up the cost of components from things I look at on ebay, I am often stunned at how a product can be sold so low compared to what the parts cost.
To those helping it can often seem like a choice of is it cheaper to buy than make?
Is the doo dah available and will do what is required or perhaps what is being asked for dosnt exist.
Salty Joe was a great example of this, what he had in mind was very specific and not really available to do exactly what he wanted, however reading the entire thread shows just how much time and effort can often go into what seems like a simple task.
My own driving forces are the learning and the hobby side, I am sort of getting into amateur radio. I say sort of because its not a cheap hobby and cash is always short because I have so many interests.
I belong to a club and some of the radio's I have been shown that were made 20-30 years ago are great! I would love to build one (I am at the start of doing so), but in all honesty these days you can buy a transceiver that can sing and dance and wash up for not that much money.
But the old guys at the club REALLY know their stuff, they had to build their first rigs as you couldnt buy one for less than a car (a quote).
Some of the other members that have been in the hobby 10 years or so know a fair bit but couldnt begin to actually build one from scrap.
So to me if the OP says look I want to make it not buy it, then the options become do I help them or do I just say nothing more on it. I dont think keep telling someone that what they are building is pointless is at all useful, i have built these stupid Stirling engines and wasted alot of time doing it and spent too much of my hard to get coinage!
But I wouldnt have missed the experience for anything! The stupid thing from an outsiders view point is a similar model can be had on ebay for around £45, i have built mine mainly from scrap and whatever I could get my hands on, however it still cost me way over £45. So it looks pointless as I didnt need a Stirling engine, I could have purchased one cheaply, I could have simply watched videos on how they work and looked at other peoples.
But from my side of the fence I learnt many many skills I may well use over and over again for the rest of my life, I also had a ridiculous amount of pure fun and excitement when it first finally spun.
I agree that sometimes it is really hard to see why people want to build some of the things they do!

 

[Rich D.]

Hey! I know where you can get a good hh:mm display real cheap! (Just kidding).

I think all three of those above motivations are valid. I am totally into electronics, have been since I was a kid. I like to build things myself even if it means I spend more money than I could by buying a device. I also like to design my projects myself - usually while leaning towards the parts I have or know how to use. In those cases I welcome detailed discussions of electronic theory & practice. But sometimes, I just want some electronic functionality without all the fuss, and I want it now. In those cases I will be glad to just go buy something for as little as I can spend. Often times it is because I am already in the middle of half a dozen other projects that aren't getting done soon enough.

Given the above, sometimes I like discussing electronic design ideas, sometimes I like building things myself, and sometimes I just want to find something that might already suit my purposes, and usually that is when I can't seem to find a device that works like I want it to. Partly it is motivated by when I need or want to have it done.

I like (sarcastically) the discussions that go something like this:

1: I want to build an amplifier, can somebody help me?
2: Sure, what kind of amplifier?
1: An audio amplifier.
2: What is your purpose? A phono preamp? Power amp? Stereo amp?
1: A lapel microphone.
2: So you want to make a pre-amp. Where will the signal go, to a recorder or speakers?
1: I have some speakers I'd like to use.
2: Is it battery powered or A/C.
1: I dunno.
2: You will need to decide, because often the design requirements are different.
1: Both I guess.
2: Well how big or powerful are the speakers? How much volume do you need?
1: The speakers are about normal size I suppose. I have two of them. I want it to be loud enough to hear well.
2: Of course you want to hear it, but do you need to fill a large room full of people or just a small room with a few people.

...and so on. It soon becomes obvious this guy has no clear idea what he wants, and no real experience with that type of equipment.
Often I would start to get into his level of understanding and generally find out he doesn't really know the difference between amps and volts. I can respect anybody reaching out for help to learn things, but sometimes it is just beyond writing a few paragraphs on a forum. Once I met a guy that wanted to learn everything he could, but when I suggested some books or even videos, he admitted he didn't like to read or watch stuff because he doesn't learn that way. It sounded like he wanted me to become his private tutor - well beyond my available time or ability.

** Please understand that I am not referring to anybody on this site. You guys seem to all be pretty darn savvy with electronics and engineering. **
But this has happened to me from time to time on other sites or even "live" in discussions with people I've met.

I play instruments too, keys and drums. Often times I meet people who say they would love to play, but when we really dig down into it - they don't want to practice, they just want to be able to play. I really don't know how that can be done!

Alright, I'll stop rambling on now. Gotta' take down the Christmas tree.

 

[MrAl]

I see this time after time...someone posts "I wanna build XYZ out of a XXX microcontroller". Only to be met with responses in the nature of "You can buy one for (some really cheap amount) from this place online".

Why do we feel the need to do this? Isn't the point of building something rather buying it for the fun of doing the project? Why must we discourage those who have a desire to build something rather than buy it?

Hi,

I almost always try to promote doing it yourself, that's what the hobby is all about. But i also try to weigh in the apparent experience of the poster as compared to the proposed project and make a judgement as to whether or not they seem fit for the job. An example is a DC to AC converter where the user should have some previous experience with dangerous voltages and possible parts explosions.

 

[Cicero]

Like has been said, the real difficulty trying to find the true purpose of the persons request. If they're in it for the fun of learning/failing/building/doing it themselves, then we'll help out along those lines. But often its just a need/want they have, and they dont really know how to get it.

Its just as easy for a newbie poster to reply after a "Why dont you just buy it here?" post, to say, "well I'm keen to build one myself."

 

[ClydeCrashKop]

What bugs me is when the OP is told they are foolish for trying to “Reinvent the Wheel”. Aside from the hobby aspect, most new products now, are improvements or variations of old products. If no one ever “Reinvented the Wheel”, our cars would have stone wheels.

 

[Jon Wilder]

The other beauty of building your own embedded device rather than buying one is that you can modify and add to it as you come up with ideas of changes and things to add to it. Whereas the purchased version may use a micro that you're unfamiliar with along with the fact that most production devices use an OTP micro in them, which makes them unmoddable.

Pretty much every embedded device I've made started out with a base idea. Then as I got to developing, I'd think of other functions I could add in via code that my hardware design would support - even post production (can we say firmware upgrades anyone?).

 

[misterT]

I see this time after time...someone posts "I wanna build XYZ out of a XXX microcontroller". Only to be met with responses in the nature of "You can buy one for (some really cheap amount) from this place online".

Why do we feel the need to do this? Isn't the point of building something rather buying it for the fun of doing the project? Why must we discourage those who have a desire to build something rather than buy it?

Many times the question is "I need to build.." and the reason is that they do not have money to buy one, or the equipment is not available in their country.