Delaying a pulse signal from a wireless remote using 555 timer

[2Electrified]

Here is what I am working on.

I have two wireless remotes on the same frequency in the same box - freq is 350MHZ. Each remote controls one clay target machine. When Button A is pushed, machine A is launched. When Button B is pressed, macine B is launched. Now comes the problem. When the Pair button is pushed only one machine goes off. I need both machines to go off at the same time or even delay one machine 1 sec. I don't know why both machines don't go off at the same time - is because they are on the same frequency and when the pair button is pushed, the signal from one of the unit gets blocked?

How can I get around this problem - I tried a 555 delay timer and it didn't like it. It would only trigger one receiver.

The lodge is trying to go cordless. The transmitters are approx. 300 ft from the receivers in the field and the machines themselves are 200 ft across from one another.

Here is how the box is hard wired. Inside a juntion box, there are two relays - one for each machine. 12v is supplied to terminals 85 and 86 for each relay. And on terminals 30 and 87 goes out to the machines A and machine B.

For a test run, I am able to get the wireless remote to work on side - lets called it machine A. I keep the 12v running to pins 85 and 86 and pins 30 and 87 are now connected to the wireless transmitter. The receiver is connected out in the field on machine A. For a test run, when I press button A for machine A - the wireless remote works perfectly. When I go to install the other wireless remote in the same box for machine B I hook it up the same way - it works fine when I press button B - machine B launches. Here is where the problem lies - when I press the pair button - only one machine launches - the other machine does nothing - acting if the signal was cancelled out. They do run on the same frequency - 350MHZ. So then I thought what if I put a 555 timer delay on one remote to delay the signal for 1 second hoping to still trigger both machines off the pair button. That is where I am having probems.

Here is how I am tying in the 555 timer to machine B. On pin 2 of the 555 timer, I have the input signal coming from the handheld control unit. The pin 3 is the output and I have it running to my relay pins 2 and 5. Pin 2 is + and Pin 5 is GND. Then I have wireless remote connected to pins COM and Pin 4 NO on the relay. When I press button B on the handheld control unit the 555 timer runs through it rountine and the relay is held open for 1 second. But when I press pair button, still only one receiver goes off.

Do I need to delay the pulse signal? Do I have this hooked up correctly in the first place?
Would a transistor help out at all or mosfet?

Here is the hardware being used:

The original handheld control unit - that acitivates the machines - normally this unit is hard wired out the field. It has a built in counter - that is why they use it.

350MHZ wireless transmitter and receiver.

Can two signals on the same frequency be sent at the same time from one location or do I nwws to have slight delay on one of the remotes? What would solve this problem? 555 timer delay? 555 pulse delay?

Would I need a NO relay or a NC relay?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[alec_t]

It would help if you could post a schematic of your set-up, as it's description doesn't tell all.
How, exactly, is your 'pair' button wired? What is the required coil current for each relay? Do you have back-emf suppression diodes across the coils? If both channels operate on the same frequency how do the two receivers distinguish their particular input signals?

 

[2Electrified]

I don't have schematics, I am wiring as I go along. The Gen Tec 4 are the handheld controllers normally used to launch the machines. The pair button wired through their circuitry board using relays and a microcontroller.

From my understanding on the wireless remote controls, the chip on the circuit board are configured so no units will interfere another units signal. If you look at the pin layout on remote circuit (pic not included) , each chip pin leg is soldered differently from the other units, I believe this distinguishes the units from interfering with one another. Not all legs are soldered, one unit will have 2 legs soldered, another unit will only have one leg soldered and so on.

On the one relay being used on the 555 timer I do have a diode running across on pins 2 and 5, I am also using another diode in the circuit as well. I do not have a diode running off the other relay though - I need to add one to that.

As for the relay info, I would have to get the specs for that. Ignore the two relays you see in the box, those will not be used. The ones I am using are the small micro relays 5VDC across the coil, you can see them in the pics that I have provided.

I don't know how much the pictures will help, but I took 3 pics. yes the wiring is ugly at this time, but it will definitely get cleaned up when I get the final results.

 

[2Electrified]

Here are the specs on the relays I am using.

Relay: JS1A-B-5V-F

Coil Type - non latching
Coil Voltage - 5VDC
Coil Current - 72ma
Contact Rating - 10A
Coil Power - 360mW
Contact Form - SPST - NO
Turn on Voltage (max) - 3.5vdc
Turn off Voltage (min) - .5vdc
Coil Resistance - 69.4 ohms

 

[jpanhalt]

I have a feeling that the RF signals to the launchers is encoded, much like a garage door opener signal is encoded. Pressing both buttons together will not make both work. One may work, because it gets a stronger signal, which may be for any number of reasons. Otherwise, the signals simply interfere with each other, and neither will work.

If you want both to work at the same time, you may need to add an encoder/decoder to each launcher that has the same code. If it is acceptable to have one launch before the other, then what you need is a sequencer. For example, send A, then 500 mS later send B.

If that description is accurate and the latter approach is the way you want to go, let us know.

John

 

[2Electrified]

John,

How difficult is it to build a decoder/encoder circuit? Would it automatically decode the rf signal? Because i dont have codes that came with the units. Would I tie the decoder/encoder in with the receiver that sits out by the launchers? And what would I need in the box that triggers the circuit? How difficult is it to add sequencer circuit? Would the sequencer be tied in with receiver that sits out in the field? Also with the sequencer what would need to be added to the unit that is triggering the circuit? I would like to know both. Are there sample circuits out there I can look at?

 

[jpanhalt]

Coding and decoding of signals like this can be done with a single chip. That is not hard to do, but you will need to know more about the receiver and transmitter circuits you have.

Are there any instructions? Do they look like garage door openers? Older units had code switches (usually a DIP switch with 10 or 12 switches); newer ones may not. Is there a brand name on that that we could look up?

If you can tolerate a half second gap or so between the "simultaneous" launch, then that can probably be done with a 555 or two. Here is a typical delay using two 555's:



The resistor and capacitor values need to be changed to get the timing that you want. If you use a relay for sending the second launch signal, the delayed pulse could actuate that relay. If you want to avoid the relay, then you may need a simple inverter or a different circuit. In either case, it will not be much more complicated than the circuit posted above.

John

 

[alec_t]

Why do you propose to use 5V relays if your supply is 12V?
Is it the transmitters which need 12V, or the circuit which will trigger them?
Are the relay contacts connected in the ground line of the remote transmitter, or in the +V line?
Even if you aren't working from a schematic, can you post a sketch of the present relay and button connections?

 

[alec_t]

Here's a possible solution if your switch-buttons are the type which connect to ground when pressed:-