Creating A wind Turbine or WaterWheel Generator.

[PowerGhost]

Well, I have a piece of land that is basicly as far away from anywhere as anywhere could be. There is a running river and lots of wind but no power. So, my first idea was, waterwheel or wind turbine. I know I would need (A.) The Waterwheel or Wind Turbine, (B.) A Car Alternator, (C.) A 12v Deep Cycle Storage Battery, (D.) and a 12v to 600wt power inverter. I even found a 12v to 3000wt power inverter. The Car Alternator would be spun by the Wheel or Turbine and generate electricity, this will charge the 12v Battery and the 12v would be converted to 3000wt, enough to power quite a few house hold appliances. But the Car Alternator would most likely generate AC and it needs to generate DC, so a Rectifier would go between the alternator and the battery. This will hopefully provide free power. I have lots of sources and have already done small scale experiments, just thought I would tell you all my plans. Not sure what I'm talking about, just ask and I will supply some more info and sources of the info and pics/diagrams. Any suggestions, tips or you wanna do it to, comment below, I will keep trying to update this. Also... I gotta find a moderately priced Inverter and 12v Deep Cycle Storage Battery, or I might try and make a inverter. Wish me luck.

-PowerGhost

 

[cr0sh]

A couple of thoughts:

1) I've seen (I think in Mother Earth magazine?) a waterwheel system that used the squirrel-cage fan of an evaporative cooler as a turbine (of sorts); not sure about efficiency, but it looked interesting

2) I don't know about NZ, but in certain areas of the United States, it can be illegal to put any kind of turbine, build a dam, block the flow, or reroute the flow of a waterway without prior authorization and planning; so you might want to look into this before just doing it (just because it is on your property, doesn't mean you can do what you want - but then again, NZ may be different).

Good luck with your setup!

 

[PowerGhost]

No legal worries in New Zealand, if its not a permanent building, its legal. NZ is very relaxed. A water wheel and turbine is now problem at all, many have them here, home made or brought from a store.

 

[alec_t]

An alternator is unlikely to give you as much power as you hope. I'm guessing it normally puts out no more than 50A at 12V. That's only 600W

 

[4pyros]

Car Alternator would most likely generate AC and it needs to generate DC,

Most newer ones have built in rectifiers and voltage regulaters so you should get a good 12 volt DC out of them. You will need more than one.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Assuming you have a reliable continuous source of water, why mess about with batteries and inverters?.

Simply use a water wheel or turbine to feed a mains voltage generator, direct mains AC with no problems.

This is how it has been done for a great many years, well before electronics.

 

[gary350]

Buy a 12 volt perment magnet motor from WW Granger it makes a great generator much better than a Car Alternator because it does not need power from the battery to generate power.

I have a 90 VDC perment magnet motor it generates pulsing DC. I have a transformer that steps it down to 12 VDC with a rectifier and filter to charge a battery. DC pulses works like AC so a transformer works fine. There are lots of DC to AC inverters for sale on Ebay I have a 300, 400 and 1000 watt inverter. I can also step up 90 to 120 VAC with a transformer and I do not need a battery or inverter but lights get bright and dim with wind speed.

Those 3 blade wind mills you see in California and for sale on Ebay are designed for 10 mph wind or faster. If you do not have 10 mph wind all the time a 3 blade prop will not work. **broken link removed**

Those farm type water pumping wind mills work in a 2 mph wind and torque doubles with surface area. **broken link removed**

If your going to put a generator in a river you can build a floating generator that goes up/down with water level or a water pipe that runs down hill to a centrifugal pump that will turn a generator. If your river runs down hill put a 1 1/2" or 2" diameter pipe to the water and run it down hill 20 ft of head pressure will give you a lot of power. This centrifugal pump works great to power a generator or perment magnet motor. The top row centrifugal pump is what you want the water goes in the center of the pump. It only takes about 5 psi water pressure to spin the pump at 1000 RPMs. The impeller diameter is what gives it the torque to drive the motor it is easy to get over 100 lbs of torque. https://www.plumbersstock.com/produ...Gpm-115-230V?gclid=CKGs58SU-qwCFRAq7Aod2QqpSQ

 

[crutschow]

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If your going to put a generator in a river you can build a floating generator that goes up/down with water level or a water pipe that runs down hill to a centrifugal pump that will turn a generator. If your river runs down hill put a 1 1/2" or 2" diameter pipe to the water and run it down hill 20 ft of head pressure will give you a lot of power. This centrifugal pump works great to power a generator or perment magnet motor. The top row centrifugal pump is what you want the water goes in the center of the pump.
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I would think that if you want to use a centrifugal pump in reverse as a turbine then the water should go into the outlet for best efficiency, not the normal inlet at the center of the pump (see this for example).

 

[tcmtech]

As far as I have ever seen vehicle alternators put out DC power not AC. They are internally rectified.

I would recommend a common large frame truck alternator like a Leese Neville one. They are internally regulated and self exciting plus can be found in sizes into the hundreds of amps ranges at 12, 24, or 48 volts being most common.

Also many of them I have found from personal experience are easily reconfigured for different voltages just by changing their internal winding connections from delta to Wye or parallel to series or both. As long as the rotor sees the correct voltage of the original working voltage you can get what ever other range of voltage out of them.

Relating to system efficiency I tend to consider that a moot point if the power source is big enough. If you have a large stream or small river you have far more available energy than you need to start with so converion efficency is not a real concern.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

As far as I have ever seen vehicle alternators put out DC power not AC. They are internally rectified.

Modern alternators are, and mostly have been for a LONG time, but really old ones used to have external rectifiers and regulators.

 

[gary350]

I would think that if you want to use a centrifugal pump in reverse as a turbine then the water should go into the outlet for best efficiency, not the normal inlet at the center of the pump (see this for example).

The brass impeller has curved blades a bit like a turbine engine.

Have you seen those lawn sprinklers that spin like a helicoper blade. The water goes in the center then travels to the tip ends of the sprinkler the water forces the sprinkler to spin, the same thing happens with the water pump impeller. If you put the water IN the OUT the impeller will still spin but you don't produce much torque and RPMs are lower.

Most car water pumps have straight blade impellers if you run water through a straight blade impeller it will not spin unless the water is forced to travel in a circle around the impeller.

 

[PowerGhost]

I just use a pitchback waterwheel. Then put the waterwheel under a waterfall. The water fall runs at a constant fast speed.

 

[PowerGhost]

From wt I have seen, a Modern Car alternator will easily charge 12v batteries, and the will run into a power inverter creating the 600w, or with the 12v to 3000w inverter.

 

[PowerGhost]

Really, well getting a rectifier is off my list of to do, thanks for the tip, and I might use a few, but one would be all I need for what I want to power.

 

[PowerGhost]

Interesting, might do tht. I want to do something more complicated, experiment with it, have fun lol

 

[PowerGhost]

I dont really want to buy anything, gotta be as cheap as possible, kinda a challenge. Finding ways to become self sufficient with little cost is quite entertaining.

 

[crutschow]

The brass impeller has curved blades a bit like a turbine engine.

Have you seen those lawn sprinklers that spin like a helicoper blade. The water goes in the center then travels to the tip ends of the sprinkler the water forces the sprinkler to spin, the same thing happens with the water pump impeller. If you put the water IN the OUT the impeller will still spin but you don't produce much torque and RPMs are lower.

Have you actually done that with a centrifugal pump to make a turbine? I believe that you will get little or no rotation if you feed the water into the inlet of the pump. The pump is not the same as a sprinkler. It needs to be feed through the outlet in reverse direction to get best efficiency, as the example I posted does.

 

[shortbus=]

How about one of Tesla's other inventions if you have enough water flow? https://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Tesla_Turbines

 

[users]

The Car Alternator would be spun by the Wheel or Turbine and generate electricity,

You'll need a gear, because Car Alternator require a high rpm to produce power (180...1000 rpm). For slow water can be used a garland power plant:
**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**

Please post links to English Versions: Moderation
https://the-mostly.narod.ru/misc/garland_hydro_electrical_plant.htmlhttps://the-mostly.narod.ru/misc/hydroelectric_station.html

 

[tcmtech]

You'll need a gear, because Car Alternator require a high rpm to produce power (180...1000 rpm).

You are off by a factor of about ten or better. Typical automotive alternators have to work in the 3600+ range for their full rated output even most commercial ones still require 1800+ minimum RPM as well for full output.

The most common ones to use are the General Motors type the 10si and 12si style that Chevy has been using since the 1960 on up. They are by far the cheapest most common and most forgiving to being used in AE systems but are usually rated at 3600 RPM for their full output.

Many of the newer styles have higher power ratings than the old 10si and 12si units but require even higher RPM's to work properly and unfortunately they are in many cases severely lacking in duty cycle capacity. Some will literally cook themselves to death in a few tens of seconds at full load where as the old GM ones could run at and above their peak ratings for extended periods without harm.

Personally for a basic system I don't see any real problem with using s stock alternator to charge a good sized set of deep cycle batteries and then using the larger 3000 watt inverter beyond that. If your average load is below the working range of the alternator and the peak load times are less than what the batteries can support without over discharging them the system should work rather well under most conditions.