cold pipe: small leak or condensation?

[Hank Fletcher]

I was doing some repair work in the ceiling above a small room in my basement this weekend. There was quite a problem with a leaky dryer vent (the room is right under the mainfloor laundry room), but that's all sorted out now. The only moisture coming into the room now is some small drips coming off the cold water pipe (copper) feeding the washing machine. The leaking (if it's that) is coming from about a foot-long section, and I'm guessing if it's a leak it's at the joint at one end, which by necessity is at a bit of a funny angle.

It's hard to tell for sure exactly what's going on because the pipe is wrapped in white foam insulation, taped on with copious amounts of duct tape. The fact that there's still moisture there is leading me to believe it's a small leak, and not condensation. The other copper pipes (including cold) are dry - is it possible that this bit is coldest because of the amount of cold water flowing through it? That seems like wishful thinking, because I'm not looking forward to soldering the pipe.

So that's where I'm at. How can I know for sure it's a leak, and if it is, is soldering a new section of pipe in my only option? I was just wondering if anyone knew of any other solution (some kind of adhesive that can withstand the high pressure in the pipe?), because I'm not confident at all in my abilities to solder copper pipe, especially with all the wood frame around! I should probably mention that it's a very small amount of water, on the order of one cubic centimeter every half hour or so. Not bad enough to call a plumber, but serious enough to damage the ceiling tile and to cause concern for the future.

 

[justDIY]

go to the hardware store and get some pipe fix epoxy, pack it around the suspect fitting, if it was a leak, it'll be fixed in 12 hrs. if it's condensation, then you'll need to rig up something to catch and drain the water.

my dad and I used some pipe fix epoxy to repair leaky threads on a steam boiler, so if I can resist 212F steam under pressure, it should hold up to cold water!

 

[Hank Fletcher]

Thanks, justDIY! Somehow I knew (was hoping?) you'd be the first with a good answer. Is pipe fix epoxy somehow different than regular epoxy? Is it the same as just getting the epoxy in the glue section that's rated for metal on metal?

Incidentally, I ran into your stuff on Youtube. I couldn't help noticing you're one of the, let's say, "more experienced" members of the forum. I met a lot of great guys like you when I was conducting the Shriner's band in London, Ontario. I have a question for you: what's your secret, how do you stay young? You seem to be on top of everything about electronics, and judging by what I can hear in your videos, you have quite eclectic tastes in music. I work with young people all the time, and I've always enjoyed it, but lately I've felt like a bit of it is slipping away on me somehow.

 

[justDIY]

i think the main difference in the pipe fix compound versus 'regular' epoxy is that it's not affected by water nor does it require air for the curing process (cures under water). judging from the stuff I worked with, it seems to have a very rapid curing time as well. it's also a putty, that is very very tacky, making it easy to apply in awkward locations. the more syrup like epoxies would probably work equally well (jb weld for example), but they're not as likely to stay in place or form-fit a leak like the putty can.

thanks for the kudos. i don't know if 'more experienced' is quite correct I'm just a hobbiest with a short attention span. So I jump from one project to the next, and I guess I cover a lot of ground that way!

I do like just about any sort of music, as long as I can understand what they're saying, I'll admit some of "todays" music just doesn't agree with me. The music in the background of my videos is usually from shoutcast.com. They have quite a lot to choose from; I often pick a channel at random, and usually it's a pleasant surprise.

 

[Sceadwian]

No true epoxy require air to cure, it's a chemical process. You can get modelling epoxy at many hobby stores (Locally it's called "green stuff") it's looks a lot like chewing gum, you fold a piece in half to mix them which you shape any way you want and it hardens into a nice firm but still pliable coating. Modellers use it to form into any shape they want and then are able to finish it further with a dremel or sandpaper afterwards. When mixed it has the consistancy of modelling clay, when cured it's more likley sculpey (only you don't have to bake it) The plumbing putty is probably a lot cheaper but the modelling putty (sometimes called plastacine I think) has a bit more of a robust consistancy.

 

[things]

just don't use plastacine on hot water pipes it'l melt i think

 

[3v0]

just don't use plastacine on hot water pipes it'l melt i think

Sceadwian was right about everything but the name.
Plasticine is a brand of modelling clay and is not an epoxy.

Putting goop on the outside of a pipe as a patch is a more difficult application then putting it in the threads where it has more surfaces to bond to. Not saying it will not work, just that it is different.

Could the water be condensing (or even leaking) above the insulated pipe and running down. Maybe even off the washing machine hose or connections?

The insurance people say it is a good idea to change the hoses about every 10 years or so.


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[Hank Fletcher]

Could the water be condensing (or even leaking) above the insulated pipe and running down. Maybe even off the washing machine hose or connections?

The insurance people say it is a good idea to change the hoses about every 10 years or so.

I crossed my fingers and went with the simplest solution first. Turns out that after I tore off all the old insulation, that it was condensation after all. I don't have a lot of faith in whatever product was insulating the cold pipe, it was a kind of spongy, white coloured material. I picked up some new stuff, 1/2" pipe insulation (the charcoal coloured stuff), and since this morning it seems to be working great.

When I still thought it was a leak, I called around the stores here to see what they'd suggest. One place mentioned a product called Magic Tape from the Glasgow company (strangely enough, located in London, Ontario, which I mentioned earlier in this thread). I might look into using that if I need it - it seems that it works underwater, and is good at high pressures and temperatures.

Thanks for all your help! I feel better prepared already for when a leak does come - even my optimism can't deny that it's a matter of when, not if.

p.s.: Yep, I replaced the washer hose when we moved in six months ago. The washer and dryer were included in the house purchase, but during the walkthrough it became apparent that both were on their way to the previous owner's new house (400km away)! A quick call to the real estate agent, and the same appliances were heading back on the same truck they were sent on. I still like to believe it was an honest mistake.