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Closing of Threads

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MrAl

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Hello there,


Is it really a good idea to close a thread? Who does this actually help, or how does it do any good?

For example, if two people are discussing the main topic quietly and starting to reach some conclusions, while later two more people join the thread and start arguing back and forth, then closing the thread results in the loss of the conversation of the first two people. So in effect, this means that if someone comes into the thread they have the ability to get the thread closed simply by starting an argument with someone else and keeping it up.
Wouldnt it make more sense to tell the arguer's to stop or moderate their part of the discussion rather than close the thread?

The thread i am referring to this time (but that's only one) is the thread with the questions about the collector current Ic. We were finally starting to make some head way but some noted arguer's kept up the argument and Eric closed the thread. This stops the argument no doubt, but leaves the two (or more) who know how to discuss the topic in a friendly manner with no way to continue the conversation. So it hurts the 'good guys' and possibly aides the 'bad guys'.

Or, is there another way to continue the (nice sane conversation) with the people who know how to discuss the issues involved in a nicer way?

Eric:
Assuming you read this, does this make sense to you?
 
Or, is there another way to continue the (nice sane conversation) with the people who know how to discuss the issues involved in a nicer way?

hi Al,

Closing the Thread was the only method I could use to stop the personal bickering that was finding its way into the posts.

I did previously post that IMO the Thread was going nowhere, but that had no effect, I did hope it would focus the contributors to the Thread to bring it to an amicable conclusion.

From what I could read from the posts, the opposing teams were arguing about two different facets of transistor operation, neither side listening to the other.:D

What would you suggest.?

Eric
 
This dispute between the two opposing factions is getting nowhere and I strongly belief that no agreement will ever be reached on the Topic.

So I have Closed the Thread.

Long overdue, IMHO.
 
hi Al,

Closing the Thread was the only method I could use to stop the personal bickering that was finding its way into the posts.

I did previously post that IMO the Thread was going nowhere, but that had no effect, I did hope it would focus the contributors to the Thread to bring it to an amicable conclusion.

From what I could read from the posts, the opposing teams were arguing about two different facets of transistor operation, neither side listening to the other.:D

What would you suggest.?

Eric


Hi there Eric,


Thanks for the quick reply here. I thought maybe our time difference would make it take longer to see a reply and then my reply etc.

Well for one thing i didnt know that you wanted us to try to bring the thread to a conclusion of some sort. I didnt think that was a requirement for threads after seeing so many very long ones with thousands of posts. If i knew that i may have tried to rush the conclusion :)

But anyway, the problem i saw was that when the thread is closed that means that the two arguers have the indirect power to get a thread closed, even though the others may be having a perfectly nice conversation. That seems a little odd because then the nice people get hurt because they cant talk about it anymore, while the arguers dont really care one way or the other especially since neither one can get their way.

So maybe if there was some way to moderate the arguer's themselves maybe? Perhaps there is something you can think of doing.

If you like we can talk about this in PM's instead of here in the forum. It's an interesting dilemma too :)

Another idea is that perhaps i can start another new thread with the conclusions, or i could write an article on this with the conclusions included.
 
Long overdue, IMHO.

Hi Mike,

Well let me ask you this...

How would you feel about that thread if all of back and forth arguments never happened?
Did you get anything positive out of the thread?
 
hi Al,

It's important that we do not get into a discussion about Moderation.

As an alternative, I would suggest that the other major contributors to the Thread express their thoughts here on this Thread, on how useful they consider the Closed Thread would be to fellow members.

From time to time we get this type of Topic where no agreement is reached and the arguments just rumble on, so the Thread has to be Closed.

Asking a general question to readers of the Thread, did they find the Thread information helpful.?

Eric
 
...
Did you get anything positive out of the thread?

A link to an alternative forum that I promptly joined.
 
What bothered me in that thread was MrAl politely asked that people address the main topic of the thread and not go back and forth on the other pointless argument. But the argument continued which resulted in the thread being closed. I think ignoring MrAls request was an impolite thing to do to someone who is so helpful and polite to others.
 
What bothered me in that thread was MrAl politely asked that people address the main topic of the thread and not go back and forth on the other pointless argument. But the argument continued which resulted in the thread being closed. I think ignoring MrAls request was an impolite thing to do to someone who is so helpful and polite to others.


Hello there Steve,

Well that might be the nicest thing anyone has ever said in this forum. I will have to hold your posts in the highest regard forever more.

Yes i made a request to the other participants but to no avail. Thus my nice thread got closed down because of them. Thus we didnt get to finish the discussion because of a couple members only. I thought it was making headway finally.
But perhaps i can find another way to present the points brought up in the thread.

Thanks for your kind words :)
 
A link to an alternative forum that I promptly joined.


Hi,

Sorry, that comment just seems rude and uncalled for. Let me ask this a different way then...

Other than the arguments, was there anything else of use to you in that thread (besides the link)?
 
How difficult would it be to ban members from participating in individual threads, while leaving them free to post in other threads?

This idea is not new, it has effectively been placed on me for one particular member here (for which I thank the moderators, to be honest), though no actual software has been implemented. Would it be too hard for EM to add the feature to the site? Allowing moderators to ban individual members from individual threads?

Just a thought....

Matt
 
What bothered me in that thread was MrAl politely asked that people address the main topic of the thread and not go back and forth on the other pointless argument. But the argument continued which resulted in the thread being closed. I think ignoring MrAls request was an impolite thing to do to someone who is so helpful and polite to others.

Hi steve, Al.

Thanks for the positive reply/s.

I would suggest that Mr Al Creates a new Thread for the Topic and he clearly re-defines the objectives of the Thread.

If any member decides to pull the thread off topic, the Moderators will be able to take appropriate action against the poster.

Regards
Eric
 
Hello to all,

may I contribute my opinion (as one of the thread contributors - however, I wonder if MrAl counts me to the Good" or to the "bad" guys).

In principle, I agree to both of the following statements:

Quote MrAl: "We were finally starting to make some head way but some noted arguer's kept up the argument and Eric closed the thread. This stops the argument no doubt, but leaves the two (or more) who know how to discuss the topic in a friendly manner with no way to continue the conversation. So it hurts the 'good guys' and possibly aides the 'bad guys'."

Yes- I agree, this situation is not satisfying at all.
However, I have some doubts if it is a good and appropriate way to characterize forum members as "good" or "bad" guys - even if quotation marks are used.

Quote Eric: Closing the Thread was the only method I could use to stop the personal bickering that was finding its way into the posts.
I did previously post that IMO the Thread was going nowhere, but that had no effect, I did hope it would focus the contributors to the Thread to bring it to an amicable conclusion.
From what I could read from the posts, the opposing teams were arguing about two different facets of transistor operation, neither side listening to the other.


Yes - a very unfortunate situation that personal attacks took place (for example: polemic questions regarding the educational resp. scientific background).
And - yes, it is true that very often arguments and opinions were repeatedly mentioned, without providing an answer to questions explicitly formulated.

For my opinion it is a very, very bad sign if engineers (who were educated to think and work as fair/objective/ as possible) are not able to exchange different views on a certain subject
in a calm, relaxed and object-oriented manner (without any "personal bickering").

Regards
Winterstone
 
Hello Winterstone,


The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly :)

Well what you are doing at the end of your post there is characterizing "engineers (who were educated....etc.)" as a group all of the same basic type when they are clearly not all the same. You are lumping them all together and then making a general statement about them all. That's like grabbing a dozen eggs at the super market and then getting home seeing that two are broken and then saying, "It's a bad sign if eggs are broken". Yes it's a bad sign, but they are not all broken, only the ones that cracked.

So what i am saying here is that there were only a few that did not stop arguing, not everyone. But it's those two eggs that got the whole dozen thrown out in the garbage.
 
How difficult would it be to ban members from participating in individual threads, while leaving them free to post in other threads?

this is a good idea, and my first idea as well, i would suggest however to give op control of banning since it is their thread, it should be their discretion to if it is bickering, useful, unrelated, or even if OP just doesn't care about the semantic.
 
this is a good idea, and my first idea as well, i would suggest however to give op control of banning since it is their thread, it should be their discretion to if it is bickering, useful, unrelated, or even if OP just doesn't care about the semantic.

I'm not sure that would be a good idea--it seems like the feature would be abused too frequently if that were the case. Personally, I'd give the mods control of banning, and if the OP wanted to disallow certain people from posting to their thread, all they would have to do is ask a moderator. Simple as that.

Matt
 
I don't think banning members from threads makes good sense in a forum. Members should obey basic rules such as being civil and sticking to the topic the OP sets for the thread. A warning from a moderator to a member who does not follow this basic common sense should be enough. A warning is important because it is easy for anyone to get off topic or to not chose words carefully. If the warning doesn't work, then banning from the thread is not enough, and a full ban is better. Hopefully, the ban is not permanent unless the member becomes a complete nuisance and does not learn from mistakes.

Basically, a member that deserves banning from a thread, deserves banning from the forum, - even if it's only a brief temporary ban to allow a cool down period.

My personal view is that a thread should not be a blog for the OP, but is instead an invitation for open debate. Often, the OP may not like what is said, but the moderator should not be worried about that. Instead, he should be concerned with civil discourse and a productive debate in the established subject. Failure to meet those basic criteria should either lead to a member ban or to a closed thread. (assuming warnings have failed)

However, even though a thread is not a blog, members should respect guidance from the OP.

In this case the thread was closed. It seems both the request from the OP and the clear warning from the moderator didn't work. If the subject is continued in another thread, action should be (and i'm sure will be) taken against those that deliberately cause a breakdown in a system that normally works very well.
 
Last edited:
Hello Winterstone,

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly :)

Well what you are doing at the end of your post there is characterizing "engineers (who were educated....etc.)" as a group all of the same basic type when they are clearly not all the same. You are lumping them all together and then making a general statement about them all. That's like grabbing a dozen eggs at the super market and then getting home seeing that two are broken and then saying, "It's a bad sign if eggs are broken". Yes it's a bad sign, but they are not all broken, only the ones that cracked.

So what i am saying here is that there were only a few that did not stop arguing, not everyone. But it's those two eggs that got the whole dozen thrown out in the garbage.

MrAl,

OK - I have tried as you have said " lumping them all together and then making a general statement about them all."
My statement (better: my hope) was that "engineers are "educated to think and work as fair/objective/ as possible".
Not so bad, for my opinion. It is quite interesting, that you do NOT agree.

In this case, I should make my position somewhat more clear:
In your post#1 you divide the thread contributors in two parts: "The Good" and "the Bad" - and I assume that you count yourself to the "good" group.
That means, all other guys who are NOT able to share your position/opinion belong to the "bad group", do they not?
This sheds some light on your attitude and the ability to "discuss" technical matters.
(By the way: Some of your contributions in the thread, closed by Eric now, confirm this impression).
Or - did I misunderstand some of your sentences?
W
 
MrAl,

OK - I have tried as you have said " lumping them all together and then making a general statement about them all."
My statement (better: my hope) was that "engineers are "educated to think and work as fair/objective/ as possible".
Not so bad, for my opinion. It is quite interesting, that you do NOT agree.

In this case, I should make my position somewhat more clear:
In your post#1 you divide the thread contributors in two parts: "The Good" and "the Bad" - and I assume that you count yourself to the "good" group.
That means, all other guys who are NOT able to share your position/opinion belong to the "bad group", do they not?
This sheds some light on your attitude and the ability to "discuss" technical matters.
(By the way: Some of your contributions in the thread, closed by Eric now, confirm this impression).
Or - did I misunderstand some of your sentences?
W


Hello Winterstone,


Oh ok, so lets see now...so my choices are:
A. You misunderstood some of my sentences, or
B. I'm a friggin' idiot who cant discuss technical matters.
Lets see now, how should i choose?

I'll take A.

But seriously, you need to lighten up a little. I've argued too on occasion, i think we all have, because we see a point that we would like the other party to see too. But what happened in the thread is the arguing continued back and forth even after asking not to do so anymore, or at least not for a while anyway. So i think maybe when one side of the argument seems more plausible than the other side to us, maybe we should provide more proof rather than argue the same points over and over.
But i dont want to judge too strongly either. Let the arguers argue their point. But beware the very topic they are so interested in may get shut down if they cant learn to control the back and forth repetition. I dont have to name names, i dont have to hold any grudges either and i wont...they know who they are, they now know the consequences. Case closed.
 
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