China Recalls?

[HarveyH42]

It's been a bad year for China imports in the U.S., and was wondering if it's just with us, or are other countries having similar problems? This has really got my curiousity going. Have they been shipping the same stuff, and we just now started complaining? Did our standards change, but China already had warehouse stuff with cheap crap ready to ship.

I've lost count of the number of china recalls this year (not enough fingers, guess china only needs the one).

Also kind of wondering if the problems are that serious, or being exaterated by the media or domestic manufacturers. Ten years ago there was a big push to buy poor quality products, just because it had the 'Made in USA' label on it. It failed mostly because consumers didn't have money to throw away on junk. People shop for best value for the buck, 'made in USA' was a low priority. And of course, the 'Made in USA' label was found to mean just the label was, or finally assembly or packaging was done in America. Wondering if this is more of an attempt to direct consumers to the 'safer' american made products, which of course would cost more, but isn't your 'health and safety' worth it, crap.


Basically I'm interested in hearing about what's going on in other countries, and whether they are getting 'dangerous' products, even check for such things. Just wondering if this is global, or just domestic. Really tough to rely on the media, the government, or business for accurate information. I figure different countries would have different views on how to deal with these issues, so a different perspective.

Just seems so odd, that after all these year of doing business with China, there would suddenly be so many problems. And I would think China would go into extreme measures to insure that there wouldn't be any major problems for a few months at the very least. So what's really going on.

 

[audioguru]

The electrical utility company in my area gave away Chinese compact fluorescent light bulbs so people can stop using so much electrical power.
They were too cheap and all were recalled.

Some other Chinese compact fluorescent light bulbs were recalled because they failed and dripped burning plastic. The manufacturer stamped them with a counterfeight approval number.

 

[Krumlink]

China likes to do things dirt cheap. We have kept our standards for quite a while, but China lately has been "ignoring" them. They need to pick up the pace and stop being so cheap. Pretty soon they are going to surpass our rednecks in cheapness.

 

[HarveyH42]

Yes, but the more recent toy recall have been for lead content. Lead isn't so much cheaper then similar materials to run the risk of getting caught. They must be aware of the health hazards of ingesting lead, and a child's tendancy to put everything in their mouths. Just bad business, and bad for their image. America is the global dumping ground of cheap crap. If we complain, there isn't much lower they can go. Who is going to buy crap even the americans won't buy? Still think there is more to all of these recent problem, then what we are being told. Kids have breaking cheap chinese toys almost as quick as they can open the package, and their parents keep buy new ones. Something more then just quality issues.

 

[kchriste]

Basically, all companies would do the same thing as the ones in China if government regulations didn't stop them. There are very few government controls on hazardous substances, working conditions, wages, etc and that's why it's so cheap and attractive to manufacture over there. It's all about the bottom line and profits.
As for the lead paint, the toy manufacturers buy the cheapest source of paint they can find. They don't test the paint; they just use it. The supplier of the paint probably got the lead paint from a disposal company and got paid to take it and is now reselling it. Or they just manufactured it with the cheapest source of chemicals they could find and didn't worry about purity.

 

[HarveyH42]

I can understand the point of using the cheapest materials, but there should be some point where the manufacturers would know they pushing the limits of what they can sell, and what will end up in the dumpster. It's not lowering cost, if you can't sell the product. China should be well aware of our standards and testing. Not to mention how quickly we share our findings with the world. From what I understand, breaking laws in china often involve being executed if caught, pretty much immediately. Seems like pretty intense incentive to do good business.

 

[Gayan Soyza]

Regarding toys

My friend bought a small BUNNY which has a switch on its nose. When you press & speak something it will record & after releasing it plays the voice you recorded continuously. My friend told that it has an ISD chip inside.

I’m wondering about that bunny’s price it was only 0.6US$.

Also ready made Chinese TV boards 14”-21” all over my place cost only 12US$.Just need an old monitor tube, the ones I have assembled to my friends still no complain. Almost near to two years. Still its working I wonder why.

 

[HarveyH42]

I'm wondering if it's not so much the chinese, but the americans over there buy the stuff to be shipped. Can't see these big companies blindly buying millions of units. Also seems kind of odd that this stuff makes into stores and sold to consumers, before anyone notices a problem. Do the american companies know, and are just trying to recover on a bad purchase?

 

[3v0]

There has been problems with everything from dog food to toothpaste. What worries me is the food supply.

How can one trust manufactured foods when the world wide market for the basic ingredients is unregulated. One can only speculate what chemicals are used in production or added as part of some process.

 

[audioguru]

Look at chickens, the ones that are grown here. They are full of fat and can hardly walk, like a lot of people.
In the "good old days" chickens were lean and could run around and fly.

 

[mvs sarma]

Way back 4 years, I know of a chinese pocket tape recoder bought in US and brought to India by a friend of mine -- it was marked STEREO but it containes a MONO head. it speaks for itself.

 

[3v0]

Look at chickens, the ones that are grown here. They are full of fat and can hardly walk, like a lot of people.
In the "good old days" chickens were lean and could run around and fly.

Same goes for beef. But if you can find range feed beef it does not have any of the fat problems.

While talking with a local rancher I asked what breed of cattle he was running. I forget what the reply was but he was cross breeding them to produce standard sized animals that the meat packers were favoring.

In general 'factory food' is a lot less healthy then the more natural counterpart. Factory food is designed to be desirable enough to buy and maximize the profits of the corporations that assemble it. The health of the consumer has little to do with it.

 

[HiTech]

Only the true farm raised chickens move about the barnyard freely. Chickens used for egg laying and meat production rarely see the light of day and are packed in huge coops tighter than canned sardines. Many of them develop poor eyesight due to the indoor lighting conditions. Mass food production will often result in unpleasant growing conditions. This is just another reason why I personally support backyard gardening and hunting wild game for meat as supplement to my family's food.

 

[ronsimpson]

I design products that are made in China.

Today I am redesigning a product that must be moved from one China plant to another. The old plant is closed and all the tooling is lost. The lawyer told us the owners of the old plant are in jail because they did not make enough profit. I do not know if this is 100% true, but the plant is closed. All the plants, I know of, operate in panic ‘must make money’ mode.

They routinely change the type of paint used with out telling us.
Every week we find they changed a product, source of parts, parts numbers or something with out warning. One product; after the 1,000,000 unite they made a big change with out warning.

We changed to “no lead” electronics so we can sell into Europe. The prototypes come with no lead. Production had lead and was labeled “no lead”. We yelled. The next production run had no lead but the next had lead. We yelled. The next 2 production runs had not lead but the next run had lead. We open every shipment looking for what they changed. On the box it will say ‘look we make no change’ and we open it up and there is a change.

I have worked with Japan, Mexico, Taiwan, etc and never had these problems. For 30 years we tough rice farmers electronics with out this much trouble. Blame it on the consumer / Wal-Mart / me …… We pay them more than the agreed price if they do not make unauthorized changes. “Shipment 7 is not working why?” “No Change boss” “I can see the change” “OK boss, change, but we saved $.03!!!” “We are paying extra for no change” “No Change boss” “I can see the change” “maybe we make change”……..

 

[Hank Fletcher]

The issues coming through U.S. media regarding Chinese products are for the most part unique to U.S. media and consistent with the xenophobia that historically has informed U.S. policy. The erroneous presumption would be to form the conclusion that sub-standard products are somehow a conscious attempt by Chinese industry or people to be anti-American.

The argument above that there are not enough government regulations in China with respect to wages and working conditions couldn't be farther from the truth. As part of a socialist state, businesses in China enjoy the same incentives that even Canada has over the U.S., such as universal health care. That's a story not told in Sicko: if health care is paid for by the government, it releases businesses from the overhead associated with providing that service to their employees.

The problems there are with Chinese products should be assessed on the scale at which they're being manufactured. China deals in large volume, so it's fair to expect that any criticism of their products should be put in context of the proportion, for instance, inferior products represent to the whole of Chinese exports.

As socialist a state as China might be, in an international market Chinese businesses are subject to the same rules of a free-market society as all other international businesses. If you don't like their products don't buy them, and caveat emptor. It's not a seller's responsibility to decide whether their product is consistent with what the buyers want - that's the buyers' responsibility.

 

[HarveyH42]

I design products that are made in China.

Today I am redesigning a product that must be moved from one China plant to another. The old plant is closed and all the tooling is lost. The lawyer told us the owners of the old plant are in jail because they did not make enough profit. I do not know if this is 100% true, but the plant is closed. All the plants, I know of, operate in panic ‘must make money’ mode.

They routinely change the type of paint used with out telling us.
Every week we find they changed a product, source of parts, parts numbers or something with out warning. One product; after the 1,000,000 unite they made a big change with out warning.

We changed to “no lead” electronics so we can sell into Europe. The prototypes come with no lead. Production had lead and was labeled “no lead”. We yelled. The next production run had no lead but the next had lead. We yelled. The next 2 production runs had not lead but the next run had lead. We open every shipment looking for what they changed. On the box it will say ‘look we make no change’ and we open it up and there is a change.

I have worked with Japan, Mexico, Taiwan, etc and never had these problems. For 30 years we tough rice farmers electronics with out this much trouble. Blame it on the consumer / Wal-Mart / me …… We pay them more than the agreed price if they do not make unauthorized changes. “Shipment 7 is not working why?” “No Change boss” “I can see the change” “OK boss, change, but we saved $.03!!!” “We are paying extra for no change” “No Change boss” “I can see the change” “maybe we make change”……..

What happens to the products they ship you, that don't conform to your instructions? Like when you order lead-free or no-changes, do you just sell them to somebody else, or do you refuse payment and ship them back? I can understand a considerable investment is made to get something in production, shipping charges, taxes, tariffs, but does it offset getting a product you can't sell as planned, or you'll have to unload for a loss?

If the savings is three cents per unit, that could be huge, for the entire run, kind of stupid. The jail for poor profits, I can't imagine shutting down a plant, there are others who could take charge of operations. No production is no profit. The chinese people seemed to highly intelligent, least from the few I've been around. Perhaps, they believe they know what's best for us, and we will eventually figure it out...

 

[Optikon]

"You get what you pay for"

Time and time again this rings true.

If you want it cheap, you'll get it cheap.
If you want it bad, you'll get it bad.

 

[ronsimpson]

Harvey,

When product do not meet out instructions, we often do not know it. Sometimes a shipment will be half good and the second half will be bad. We open some boxes and test. Looks good! They hit Wal-Mart and ½ smoke. We are in trouble. We trash, with out paying, hole shipments. I do not understand risking dumping, a semi-load of $10.00 product over $.03.

“Perhaps, they believe they know what's best for us” Rewrite that: “They believe they know what's best for THEM”.

About paint on toys. The prototypes have the right paint. The first production runs have the right paint. I have the labels from the cans of paint. I have a certificate with every shipment stating the paint is this certain type. They ship a BOM stating what every component is, in this shipment. About once a month; the paint is the wrong color and from a different vender or the solder has lead or they changed part vendors or there is an entirely different circuit. If this happened in one factory I would know what to do.

In the news; they publicly executed a man in charge of quality. Things did not get better for me.

 

[HarveyH42]

So, basically they mix the production runs together, and hope the bulk of the inferior products are sold to consumers, who break them and throw them away, before anyone catches on. As long as you order from the same people in China, they will continue to try and slip in some of the bad stuff the already made. Should just hard line them, one below spec unit, and we are done doing business. Depends on the product and other potential customers. They can stick you with a bad shipment, or you can stick them with a warehouse full...

 

[HiTech]

Well, this just in on the very subject:

https://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN2244532320070822
Of course you have to read carefully that all of the recalls, present and past regarding lead in paint, state the words "may have". That leaves the doors open for slithering outside!


Back in the 40''s I believe, China named one of its towns as USA with no abbreviation periods. It stamped many a worthless, less than cheap products hoping to fool many GIs into thinking they were buying American made products. Maybe it's time for the United States to rename one of its towns as ROC, exporting unsafe products back to China!