Can't decide what programmer to buy

[nadav2605]

I'm a total newbie in electronics and pic programming. I want to start building circuits with PICs that controll LED's. I don't know how it's done and i don't know what i need to get started.
I do know i need a PIC programmer, don't know exacly which kind but i was looking around a bit and found three options that look good to me. If you can tell me what each one of them pros and cons and which one should i get.

First one -

Second one - **broken link removed**

Third one - **broken link removed**

Thanks in advance.

 

[davidbball13]

junebug........ plus ZIF sockets kill the pins after a lot of prying them out

 

[Krumlink]

First one: Clone of the PICkit2 programmer, supports a ton of chips.

2nd one: A JDM programmer. You have a higher chance of winning a lottery than that thing working the way you want it to.

3rd one: Tiny support list.

 

[nadav2605]

First one: Clone of the PICkit2 programmer, supports a ton of chips.

2nd one: A JDM programmer. You have a higher chance of winning a lottery than that thing working the way you want it to.

3rd one: Tiny support list.

OK so i guess i'll go with the JuneBug according to your recommendation. I do have some questions about it. I understand that it is a pic programmer. If so, why on the picture of the device i can see two places for chips that can be taken off? First one to the right of the buttons and second to the right of the status LED's. Don't i need only one place to put my pic and program it?
Second question is: If this is only for programming chips, why do i need all of these switches, red leds and buttons and IR emitter? What does it have to do with a pic programmer?

 

[Krumlink]

No, do you see the 2x5 header? You simply plug in a 2x5 header in there, and bring it to your board. The other stuff is a tutor. Just look on the website to explain it.

**broken link removed**

Junebug programmer/tutor on left, mongoose robot on right. 2x5 header programs the pic.

 

[futz]

OK so i guess i'll go with the JuneBug... I do have some questions about it. ... If so, why on the picture of the device i can see two places for chips that can be taken off? First one to the right of the buttons and second to the right of the status LED's. Don't i need only one place to put my pic and program it?

The big chip (18F2550) is the one that does the programming. It is the programmer. The smaller chip (18F1320) is part of an onboard "dev board" experimenter. You can set the Junebug to program it, or set it to program outboard target chips via the 2x5 IDC header and a programming cable. Like this:
**broken link removed**

If this is only for programming chips, why do i need all of these switches, red leds and buttons and IR emitter? What does it have to do with a pic programmer?

You don't need all that but it's nice to have. It's a bonus onboard experimenter. Some stuff to use and learn with, using the onboard 18F1320. If you don't want to use it, simply switch it off, plug in your programming cable and go.

 

[RussMartin]

You also may wish to explore the options offered by microEngineering Labs:

https://www.melabs.com/

The U2 programmer is quite good, as are their other products.

If you are new to programming as well, they offer some good resources.

You can also look at

https://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/

There's good help to be found there even if you aren't using PICBASIC.

 

[nadav2605]

The big chip (18F2550) is the one that does the programming. It is the programmer. The smaller chip (18F1320) is part of an onboard "dev board" experimenter. You can set the Junebug to program it, or set it to program outboard target chips via the 2x5 IDC header and a programming cable. Like this:
**broken link removed**


You don't need all that. It's a bonus onboard experimenter. Some stuff to use and learn with, using the onboard 18F1320. If you don't want to use it, simply switch it off, plug in your programming cable and go.

Thank you all for the replies. I still don't understand some stuff. What's a tutor and what is so special about the 18f chip that comes with it? Why is the programmer chip itself is removable? Why would i want to remove or replace it? And one more thing, how do i use the led's and buttons on the circuit with my own pic (i.e. 16f628a)?

I'll need a lot of info about how to use those stuff and what each part does.

Thank you!

 

[futz]

What's a tutor and what is so special about the 18f chip that comes with it?

A tutor (well, this tutor) is a board with a PIC and some switches, LEDs, potentiometers, some connectors and an IR sensor all laid out so you can use them to play and learn to program a bit without having to immediately buy more parts. There's nothing special about the 18F1320. It's just a decent 18-pin PIC in the 18F series. It's just the chip that the board's designer chose.

Why is the programmer chip itself is removable? Why would i want to remove or replace it?

It's a DIP so it's easily solderable by newbs (this is a kit). You might want to pull it out and reprogram it with another programmer someday, so a socket is a good idea. The CON6 connector brings some of the 18F2550's pins out so it can be used as something other than a programmer if you should want to for some reason.

And one more thing, how do i use the led's and buttons on the circuit with my own pic (i.e. 16f628a)?

You don't. It's much easier to use your own on a solderless breadboard or proto board. These are not expensive parts.

 

[nadav2605]

A tutor (well, this tutor) is a board with a PIC and some switches, LEDs, potentiometers, some connectors and an IR sensor all laid out so you can use them to play and learn to program a bit without having to immediately buy more parts. There's nothing special about the 18F1320. It's just a decent 18-pin PIC in the 18F series. It's just the chip that the board's designer chose.


It's a DIP so it's easily solderable by newbs (this is a kit). You might want to pull it out and reprogram it with another programmer someday, so a socket is a good idea. The CON6 connector brings some of the 18F2550's pins out so it can be used as something other than a programmer if you should want to for some reason.


You don't. It's much easier to use your own on a solderless breadboard or proto board. These are not expensive parts.

Thanks, i think i'm starting to get the hang of it. I have a few more if you will .

1) Can i use the supplied 1320, program it my way, take it off the board and put it in my own circuit with my own components?

2) One of the projects i really want to do is this http://tobe.nimio.info/led_mood_lamp.php which is done there with a 16f628a chip. If i get a breadboard and some led's can i also do it with the supplied 1320?

3) And my biggest concern - As a beginner, should i really get an assembled kit that i have to solder myself? How hard will it be for me and what are the chances i'll ruin the components?

Thanks again!

 

[futz]

1) Can i use the supplied 1320, program it my way, take it off the board and put it in my own circuit with my own components?

Certainly. But typically you'd put it on your target board or breadboard with a 2x5 ICSP connector and cable to it for programming. Moving the chip back and forth is a really horrible/dumb way to do it. That's what ICSP (In Circuit Serial Programming) was invented for. Simply change your program, hit a couple keys or mouse clicks and the chip is programmed, ready for test. You'll do it hundreds and thousands of times when programming MCU's. If you moved the chip back and forth that many times the pins would wear out and break off, not to mention that it is tedious and slow. ICSP is fast and easy.

2) One of the projects i really want to do is this http://tobe.nimio.info/led_mood_lamp.php which is done there with a 16f628a chip. If i get a breadboard and some led's can i also do it with the supplied 1320?

Yes. The 18F1320 is a much more modern chip than the ancient 16F628A. Nicer to use in many ways.

3) And my biggest concern - As a beginner, should i really get an assembled kit that i have to solder myself? How hard will it be for me and what are the chances i'll ruin the components?

If you aren't comfortable with soldering yet, you can buy the **broken link removed**. It's very simple to solder together, but if you have a history of cooking parts, buy it pre-assembled.

Or you could buy a **broken link removed** or a PICkit 2 clone (same programmer, but without the tutor section).

Looks like this in action:
**broken link removed**

 

[nadav2605]

Certainly. But typically you'd put it on your target board or breadboard with a 2x5 ICSP connector and cable to it for programming. Moving the chip back and forth is a really horrible/dumb way to do it. That's what ICSP (In Circuit Serial Programming) was invented for. Simply change your program, hit a couple keys or mouse clicks and the chip is programmed, ready for test. You'll do it hundreds and thousands of times when programming MCU's. If you moved the chip back and forth that many times the pins would wear out and break off, not to mention that is tedious and slow. ICSP is fast and easy.


Certainly. The 18F1320 is a much more modern chip than the ancient 16F628A. Nicer to use in many ways.


If you aren't comfortable with soldering yet, you can buy the **broken link removed**. It's very simple to solder together, but if you have a history of cooking parts, buy it pre-assembled.

Or you could buy a **broken link removed** or a PICkit 2 clone (same programmer, but without the tutor section).

Looks like this in action:
**broken link removed**

I don't know. Last time i soldered anything was 10 years ago. I don't remember it to be that hard but when i'm dealing with something that costs $50 and has hundreds of parts or so, i'm not sure if i can handle it. How hard would that be for a beginner?

 

[futz]

I don't know. Last time i soldered anything was 10 years ago. I don't remember it to be that hard but when i'm dealing with something that costs $50 and has hundreds of parts or so, i'm not sure if i can handle it. How hard would that be for a beginner?

It's not too bad. You can ask for help here, from the original designer and other people.

Or shell out the extra $10 to KNOW your programmer is assembled correctly and learn soldering later on other, cheaper stuff.

 

[nadav2605]

It's not too bad. You can ask for help here, from the original designer and other people.

Or shell out the extra $10 to KNOW your programmer is assembled correctly and learn soldering later on other, cheaper stuff.

I think i'll take the challenge
I live in Florida, where would you recommend ordering it from so it won't take a lot of time and the shipping will be the cheapest?

Thanks!

 

[RussMartin]

I recommend buying your programmer assembled. That way:

1. You know it works, and

2. You can devote your energy to breadboarding and soldering your projects.

 

[futz]

I recommend buying your programmer assembled. That way:

1. You know it works, and

2. You can devote your energy to breadboarding and soldering your projects.

I tend to agree. Especially if you're not quite confident in your soldering skills. Experiment with your projects, but have a known-good programmer with good, solid programming cables and connectors (not hacked together home made individual wires. That way you at least know the programmer isn't the problem when you have troubles (and you will have troubles ).

 

[nadav2605]

I tend to agree. Especially if you're not quite confident in your soldering skills. Experiment with your projects, but have a known-good programmer with good, solid programming cables and connectors (not hacked together home made individual wires. That way you at least know the programmer isn't the problem when you have troubles (and you will have troubles ).

OK thanks all, i guess i'll take it assembled after all. Any store recommendations to order to Florida?

Thanks!

 

[futz]

OK thanks all, i guess i'll take it assembled after all. Any store recommendations to order to Florida?

**broken link removed**.

Buy a A-B USB cable too. Then you'll need an old floppy cable or 40-conductor IDE cable to rip up (Junebug doesn't come with cables), and some 2x5 IDC female connectors to make programming cables out of. Get some extra connectors, as you'll almost for sure screw it up the first time or two. They're cheap.

For the breadboard connectors, get some 2x5 IDC male connectors and some 2-row header pins to solder together.

See this thread for more details.

 

[RussMartin]

Or you can buy the U2 programmer with accessories, including the adapter, the USB cable, and the software:

https://www.melabs.com/products/usbprog.htm

The programming cables with 10-pin headers are extra; they're shown at the bottom of the page.

Jeff and Charles at mE Labs provide great technical support and assistance, either on the telephone or by E-mail.

 

[futz]

Or you can buy the U2 programmer with accessories, including the adapter, the USB cable, and the software:

https://www.melabs.com/products/usbprog.htm

Can you do hardware debugging with the U2? Does it integrate properly with MPLAB? Just curious. If it doesn't do either then I would highly recommend to go with a PICkit 2 compatible instead.

OH! The U2 is expensive! Better be damn good for that price.