BP gulf oil well problem

[HarveyH42]

Been about 6 weeks now, latest attempt to plug the well fail (some how, not surprised), and millions of gallons of oil fouling our coastlines. What I can't understand, is the lack of urgency in containing, and cleaning up the spill. Seems like Exxon was a lot more active in the Alaska spill, this one seems to be much worse. Kind of disappoint in our president (well, more than usually), in that he hasn't declared it an emergency situation, or stepped up, and put all the resources he has available toward fixing this mess. He has millions of people on the unemployment payroll to call on. Our navy has quite an assortment of vessels. I'm sure there are plenty of manned and unmanned vehicles he could also employ, if he asked nice, maybe offered a beer or two on the White House lawn... The economy is still in very bad shape, and this is a disaster we do no need, and continues to get worse daily.

My view, is that BP's focus is mainly on saving their well, and to keep it profitable. Got a hunch that once the oil stops flowing, they lose their permit to operate a well there, and probably won't get it back either.

Kind of shock there doesn't seem to be more of a plan of action, toward containing, and cleaning up the oil spill. There have been quite a number of lesser spills, with very costly cleanups. Perhaps not costly enough to bother with. We the taxpayers are going to bare the bulk of the cleanup costs, BP will sell out, change their name, or merge with another company, but I doubt the name will survive this one.

 

[Sceadwian]

Harvey, the origin is under almost a mile of water, near freezing temperature the pressure is something like 150 atmospheres. A billion peoples hands couldn't plug that hole, we barely know how most materials react under those conditions. The formation of the hydrates when they first tried to cap it is proof 1. This isn't like the Exon spill where it was a bunch of oil calmly dumped on top of water. If you think this is an oil spill of the conventional type I'm sorry but you're delusioned, the base cap of deep underwater oil rig blew off nothing like this has EVER happened. The specifics of the water pattern flow in that portion of the ocean are probably still no more than theory. This is NOT an oil spill, a man made container didn't rupture, the base head of the freegin well is GONE, there is nothing but mother nature pushing oil out now.

 

[3v0]

I think you are vastly underestimating the depth of BP pockets.

Other then that I think you nailed it.

About blowout preventer. If it did not work I would like to see more effort put into ones that do.

I was under the impression that the D party favored the environment more so then the R's. Wonder how much big energy contributed to the election ?

 

[HarveyH42]

Hmmm... Guess I misunderstood the first attempt. Thought they were basic dropping a huge funnel over the hole, with a long hose leading up to a tanker, were the could resume business as usual, until they could drill a 'relief' well, so the get back to more stable operations and production, and eventually plug the messed up hole. Unfortunately, ice crystals kept clogging up their recovery hose, so no oil production. Don't recall where the oil was going, if not up the hose. Don't think it was still gunking up the gulf though... Still believe if they wanted to stuff a cork in it from the start, they would have. I knew the latest attempt would fail, when they reported the 18 hour pause in pumping in the concrete/mud.

You do understand, sort of though. Because it is a mile deep, and never happened before, creating an endless toxic mess, makes it a disaster, requiring all the attention we can spare, to get it resolved quickly. But after 6 weeks, everybody is still waiting on BP to take care of it. Doesn't matter anymore who's fault it is, or who is responsible for cleaning it up. We just need to get the job done quickly, before it gets any worse. Where is Al Gore when you need him, the man can sell anything.

Guess it's not a huge concern up in New York, current flows south, so the oil slick won't be fouling your beaches, killing your fish or fishing industry, and nobody cares about the pigeons, all they do is crap on everybody and everything anyway. We have a lot of wild life down here, that you probably only see in the circus or zoo, much of it will feel the effects, since the oil isn't just nasty crap, but also toxic, you know, poison.

Even if they do cap off the well, it's going to be many months getting that mess cleaned up, and who knows how long the toxins will remain in the food chain. This was already known from previous spills, that's why it so disturbing they are taking such a casual approach to this problem. It's much worse than any past spill, yet it doesn't seem to be raising as much concern.

BP is one of our customers at work, we service their convenience stores. Not really one of our largest accounts, but the economy is hurting business, this won't help, considering all the boycott talk on the news. We've already been warned that our health insurance is going to cost more, the company hasn't figured how much, or how they are going to deal with it yet. They just told us there were going to be some major changes next year, and not good ones.

It's going to be interesting to see how this effects plans for expanding offshore drilling. Both Obama, and our Governor Charlie Crist were in favor of allowing more wells, to help the economy, and reduce dependency on foreign oil. Even after this catastrophe, wonder if they will go ahead on those plans. My guess, is they will, and will pretty much confirm just how corrupt our government has become.

 

[BrownOut]

I
I was under the impression that the D party favored the environment more so then the R's. Wonder how much big energy contributed to the election ?

Which election? Overall, big oil contributes to republican candidates over democrat candidates by a 3-1 margin. In the past presidential election, they played both sides by contributing much more to McCain ($2.4 million) than to Obama ($900k). Oil-friendly Bush + Cheney rolled back many restrictions on the usage of public lands for oil exploration, got a senate bill that opened up ANWAR, and in 2008, lifted a ban on offshore drilling, while big oil spent 132 million dollars for lobbying.

Environmentalists have warned for years about a big spill in the Gulf if the area is open to drilling. Big oil and conservatives trivialized the danger, while calling those who warned alarmists, kooks and so forth. Now, the chickens have come home to roost, so it seems. We lost a sensitive area in the Valdez disaster, and now are in grave danger of losing one of our most precious resources. The gulf is the largest source of seafood in the country, has (had) a thriving tourism industry, has some of the most beautiful beaches in the world, boosts world-class sport fishing and diving. Now, the oil is seeping in to the most important bays and estuaries, where some of the gulf's sea life comes to breed and spawn. The thick, gooey menace can be found in these sensitive areas, staining and killing the vital coastal grasses and killing not only the current generation of fish, clams, shrimp, etc, but also poisoning future generations. Some species could simply cease to exist.

The dispersants being used to break up the oil only makes it sink below the surface, where it forms plumes miles long. These plums don't evaporate or loose toxicity, just hang there and kill more sea life. Besides that, the dispersants their selves are toxic. It is believed that the dispersants kill the natural oil eating microbes that live on the gulf floor; taking away one of the ways the gulf can heal itself.

The loss of the gulf would be a terrible, tragic loss. I grew up on the gulf coast. This has been one of the most abundant, ecologically diverse places in the country. Entire ways of life for the coastal residents are being lost. The fishing and tourism industries generate billions of dollars annually, and provide millions of jobs. Many of those are disappearing. It's heart-wrenching to watch this story go on and on, no end seems to be in sight.

 

[Boncuk]

There are oil well blasting companies existing in the USA. If I remember well one of the most famous is "Red Adaire", blowing out uncontrolled wells in Saudi Arabia using well dosed and placed explosives. (Saw an impressive film about their work some decades ago - several ripple explosions and the oil fountain collapsed.)

May be a tactical 10 or 20kt mini-nuke would do the job causing enough natural ground to collaps and fill the hole, preventing further blowout.

I don't know if they have been removed off the nuclear arsenal of the USA, but one of those would come in handy today - I believe.

Being president of the USA I wouldn't hesitate to organize the cutoff using the military and it's experience.

Thousands of tons of heavy oil spilled into the Gulf of Mexico make things worse every hour.

What is a blowout preventer good for if it doesn't do its job? (Sloppy work?)

On the other hand I don't object to "sardines in oil".

Boncuk

 

[bryan1]

On the other hand I don't object to "sardines in oil".

Boncuk

Wonders if Thailand would allow the import of sardines soaked in old dirty sump oil for a month just so Bonuck can feed his fetish.......

 

[Boncuk]

Wonders if Thailand would allow the import of sardines soaked in old dirty sump oil for a month just so Bonuck can feed his fetish.......

Hi Bryan,

hope you got it right.

 

[HiTech]

I mentioned this idea in another thread: pump the well opening with mercury. Mercury is heavy and will easily plug the pressurized hole. It can be topped off with a sealant like concrete or whatever the preferred stuff is. The amount needed isn't enough to cause serious environmental impack if done properly.... especially when compared to oil spewing about!

 

[HiTech]

May be a tactical 10 or 20kt mini-nuke would do the job causing enough natural ground to collaps and fill the hole, preventing further blowout. I don't know if they have been removed off the nuclear arsenal of the USA, but one of those would come in handy today - I believe. Being president of the USA I wouldn't hesitate to organize the cutoff using the military and it's experience.
Boncuk

Surely you are joking? Now you propose to add radioactivity into the spewing mix? Besides, the military is the very last gang of folks that should be employed for a task such as this one. All the military is good for is to kill people and break things. The well is already broken... it needs fixed.

 

[mramos1]

Well, now they cut the pipe so more oil is coming out and have their drill stuck in the piling. Hope they fix it soon. I like seafood and the oil is not far from us. I too grew up in Tampa. On the east coast now (West Palm Beach). It is truly sad.

 

[Boncuk]

Surely you are joking? Now you propose to add radioactivity into the spewing mix? Besides, the military is the very last gang of folks that should be employed for a task such as this one. All the military is good for is to kill people and break things. The well is already broken... it needs fixed.

Well, I'm not joking.

If a conventional charge can do the same as a mini-nuke why not give it a try?

On the other hand, if a mini-nuke is shot deep inside the hole it won't probably cause a lot of contamination.

Fixing the well has proved to be impossible - at least for BP.

I can't understand why make a break of 18 hours before continuing to pump heavy mud into the hole. I guess if it had be done in continous action the well could have been stopped spewing oil.

I don't know about the abilities of the US forces, but German forces are used when autumn storms damage the North Sea Coast to seal dykes, and they do it in a very professional way. (I participated in on one of dyke repairing actions 1960 tossing sand sacks from one to another in a long chain to stop the holes every wave breaks into the dyke)

We were 2,500 men working at 500m of dyke and won the competition with the storm and the waves. After the flood had seized we were awarded with a banner (proud ) added to our wing flag in a very impressive ceremony carried out at the "Schloß of Schleswig", being honoured by the president of Schleswig-Holstein. (I was one of the flag escourting officers.)

I know that soldiers are normally "kept" for killing, (especially my favorite field of silent killing) which I also know how to do, but helping in catastrophic situations is also a job for soldiers - protecting their country.

I also know that US soldiers require a checklist for everything they are supposed to do. If they get into a situation not covered by a checklist they get helplessly lost - not so a German soldier. He just uses common sense and phantasy to get along. (He has the freedom to think for himself.)

Military procedures don't seem to have changed much for US forces. It took 10 US soldiers (average) to finish up one German soldier.

Kind regards

Boncuk

 

[3v0]

The Army Core of Engineers would be the branch to look to.

 

[tvtech]

Red Adair would have probably sorted it out by now...

Problem is...he was great at putting out land based well problems/fires...and he is dead. I believe he would of found a way though....

BP has a load of crap on their hands. Nobody has a clue how to cap the well. People are guessing and trying anything and everything.

This might be the end of British Petroleum. And that is sad.

They do not deserve it. An accident of this nature could of happened to ANY of the big players out there. Thank God I don't work for BP at this time. I would be quite frankly crapping myself....

TV Tech

 

[HarveyH42]

It really doesn't look like BP has had any interest in permanently capping the well, or dealing with the spewing oil, only to keep the well active and productive. Guessing the mess has already greatly exceed any dollar amount they are obligated to pay, by their lack of concern. I'd really like to see a complete ban of all off shore oil operations, until the can come up with some reasonable plans for preventing future spills. There should have already been some sort of procedure for containing and removing the spilled oil, other than divert it, which is just passing the problem off on somebody else, or until it makes its way to open seas.

Nobody sounds too optimistic about the current attempt, of cutting off the damaged pipe, and stuffing a new valve on top. All seem to agree its a wild long shot. Even the relief wells the are to have completed in August, aren't a sure thing, they may have to drill a half dozen more holes, before they get one that has any effect on the busted well hole. They aren't saying the relief wells won't produce oil, just that the won't stop the current one from spewing as well. So, being a skeptic, are they really trying to stop the leak, or just using the time to drill a few more productive wells? Guess we will see what happens with that, over the next few months.

Another bummer, Hurricane season has begun. The pacific side had it's first named storm, 160 dead in Central America. Haven't look to see if it was heading toward the gulf. But, with the clean-up crews housed in tent cities, it's just begging for a bigger catastrophe. How many will stick it out, how many will stay home? A lot of coastline, lot of beach, and the oil isn't going to end anytime soon.

 

[tcmtech]

Now that I have had some basic experience and time around the oil fields and workers here in the state I have had a chance to hear many thoughts about the oil leak in the gulf as it seen from the eyes of those who know how that stuff works.

Politics, bureaucracy and BS is whats the problem.

Those well casings they used in the gulf are most likely the same type that are used around here and even at a mile under water some simple high school level plumbing fixes still apply.

Just crimp the top shut with a big hydraulic pincher device. It may not stop the leak 100% but it will slow it down drastically.
I asked a company man at one of the rigs I regularly deal with now about that and he flat out said thats almost to obvious to work! The steel pipe they use for casing is high strength but its also just malleable enough to take being bent or crushed without catastrophic ripping at the fold points. I have seen a few pieces of that well casing that was discarded for being all bent up and flattened out at one rig site already so I know it can be done easily enough.

It may not be a prefect or permanent fix but its a better solution that doing nothing useful just as they are doing now.

 

[mramos1]

I tend to agree with tchtech on the BS part.

Think about it, they have/had all the equipment down there, lots of it too. It got there somehow, way down in the cold water. They had to drill and hook it all up, way down in the cold water with all the pressure and all. All magic I guess. But that was all done.

Now we can not cap a couple pipes. I think there is a hidden agenda here. Maybe after our free health care (2012) our .GOV can plug that in 2013.. Since BP WILL not do it.

 

[Sceadwian]

That can't be done as far as I know TCMTECH according to a random article I ran across the well casing is actually made out of some kind of hard alloyed steel and it's hardened. It'd shatter like a ceramic under any kind of extreme deformation. If it were that simple they would have done it already, no one is THAT stupid and I think conspiracy theories should be left at the gate where they belong.

 

[Mikebits]

I know squat about oil drilling but, from what I have read the major obstacle is the incredible depth of the well. At this depth the only thing they can use are undersea versions of R2D2 and this must be difficult.

It seems to me that current US offshore drilling restrictions have forced oil companies to work in the abysmal depths of Davy Jones Locker. If these companies could have worked in the shallower waters of the shelf this problem would most likely have been corrected already.

 

[HarveyH42]

That can't be done as far as I know TCMTECH according to a random article I ran across the well casing is actually made out of some kind of hard alloyed steel and it's hardened. It'd shatter like a ceramic under any kind of extreme deformation. If it were that simple they would have done it already, no one is THAT stupid and I think conspiracy theories should be left at the gate where they belong.

Shatter like ceramic... Look bent up, and a hole ripped in it, where all the oil, gas, and heavy mud/junk has been escaping, least from the live video. If it were that brittle, should have already shattered. Not to mention, sort of a poor choice for a material that is going to see some stress during stormy weather. Guess it's one of those faith things.

**broken link removed**

It's a .GOV, and Global Warming, oh, and from a democratic politician, so you can trust it like the gospel, even if you are an Atheist. Wonder if this think is spewing more CO2 into the atmosphere, than the Iceland Volcano. Must be a huge amount to be on that website, guess we're in for one hot summer, and can't even go to the beach...

Still, BP has been very careful to preserve use of that well. The efforts have been to control the flow, not shut it down. Still believe they are going to let it spill out, until the get a new hole to replace it. Guess we find out tomorrow if they got the saw going again.

Didn't know BP stands for British Petroleum, is this their version of the 'Boston Tea Party'? Long time to hold a grudge...