An Update On Tarrifs

[For The Popcorn]

I received by boards and parts for the vending machine project today. I was pleasantly surprised to say the least.

On a $185 assembly order from JLC, delivered by DHL, no tarrif or additional fees were charged.

On a $68 parts order from Tayda Electronics (Thailand), delivered by DHL, no tarrif or additional fees were charged.

On a $16 + tax and shipping from Avnet, a ~$10 "tarrif recovery fee" was charged, later reduced to ~$3. This was for ST Micro triacs, which had to be in the US already, as they shipped the next day.

On a Digikey order, two tarrifs were charged:

10% on TDK capacitors

A little less than 10% on $2 of diodes.

Again, both of these parts had to be in the US as they shipped the next day.


So today at least, the only tarrifs charged were by US companies in anticipation of paying larger tarrifs.

The orange cheeto is on the news again, blabbering about tarrrifs being too high (the tarrifs he imposed with a Sharpie scribbled signature) so who knows what's to come.


Before anyone criticizes my comments, please understand that tarrifs are paid by consumers, NOT BY SUPPLIERS. If you can't understand that, there is no need to comment.

 

[ZipZapOuch]

Why is this a new thread?

 

[schmitt trigger]

I had previously asked a question about tariffs, as I need to order from JLCPCB

 

[For The Popcorn]

HS code 8517.62.00 is/was/who-knows-now exempted from tarrifs. If your boards include a microcontroller, it's a defensible option, as most micros take some kind of data input and convert it to some kind of output. We found this recommendation online, in an importer group.

A web summary:

The HS code 8517.62.00 refers to machines for the reception, conversion, and transmission or regeneration of voice, images, or other data, including switching and routing apparatus. This code falls under Chapter 85, which covers electrical machinery and equipment and parts thereof. Specifically, it includes items like modems (8517.62.00.10), switching and routing apparatus (8517.62.00.20), and other similar machines (8517.62.00.90).

 

[For The Popcorn]

Here's a new wrinkle. JLCPCB is REQUIRING an SSN (Social Security Number) to order.

 

[ZipZapOuch]

Here's a new wrinkle. JLCPCB is REQUIRING an SSN (Social Security Number) to order.

My website has always required my customers to enter SSNs, a copy of their birth certificate, an closeup photo of their irises, finger prints and their Maternal Grandmother's maiden name to place an order.

 

[ronsimpson]

JLCPCB is REQUIRING an SSN (Social Security Number) to order.

Now Musk will know exactly what you ordered.

 

[ZipZapOuch]

Here's a new wrinkle. JLCPCB is REQUIRING an SSN (Social Security Number) to order.

And what's the penalty for entering a fake (random) SSN?

Which country actually needs it?

 

[For The Popcorn]

Now Musk will know exactly what you ordered.

With his DOGE kiddies messing around in the Social Security database, yes, I think that is a legitimate fear. There are already reports of certain undesirables being marked as dead in the Social Security database, and apparently it is very difficult to convince the SSA that you have risen from the dead.

This is a horrific time in America's history.

 

[schmitt trigger]

And what's the penalty for entering a fake (random) SSN?

Which country actually needs it?

If you’re caught, you may be accused of tax evasion.
It is a long shot that you could be caught for a small amount of taxes, but if you are, you’ll be subjected to torture worthy of Dante’s ninth circle of hell.

Of course I am exaggerating. But only slightly.

 

[ZipZapOuch]

If you’re caught, you may be accused of tax evasion.
It is a long shot that you could be caught for a small amount of taxes, but if you are, you’ll be subjected to torture worthy of Dante’s ninth circle of hell.

Of course I am exaggerating. But only slightly.

And, it's over. JLCPCB is no longer requiring SSN.
Just select DDP as the INCO Term.
DDP = "Delivered Duty Paid"
That way, JLCPCB is the importer of record and they pay the duty (including tariffs).

 

[Diver300]

In the UK we saw something like this with Brexit and getting goods from the EU.

While the UK was in the EU, the supplier charged VAT as they would to domestic customers.

Now that we are out of the EU, it is the same as getting stuff from anywhere else abroad, and VAT (and possibly duty) are charged by the import agents, for which fees are charged by the import agents.

(The VAT had been complicated before Brexit by it changing to suppliers needing to be registered for VAT in the countries that they supplied to, which is huge burden on small companies. Politicians always make things more complicated)

 

[ZipZapOuch]

...which is huge burden on small companies.

In the U.S., "small" businesses generate about 45% of GDP so the government would be giving up a huge portion of tax revenue if not applying taxes, duties and user fees to all businesses. And, honestly, all administrative and regulatory tasks are a burden on every company. The playing field is level. The small businesses just yell louder.

 

[Diver300]

And, honestly, all administrative and regulatory tasks are a burden on every company. The playing field is level. The small businesses just yell louder.

In terms of percentage of turnover, regulatory tasks often end up being a much bigger burden on small companies.

 

[ronsimpson]

regulatory tasks are a burden on every company

With out regulations we would not have save electricity. Ground wires cost money, GFI breakers cost money, who cares of people die.
With out regulations I could make millions of power supplies that radiate noise and block TV and radios.

 

[ZipZapOuch]

In terms of percentage of turnover, regulatory tasks often end up being a much bigger burden on small companies.

One can always come up with an "as a percent" of turnover argument to justify a position, but any entrepreneur SHOULD know, there are fixed costs of doing business, regardless of company size. If they don't know that and yell loudly about unfair regulation, can we just let businesses that employ less than 100 people make power supplies that emit EMI? Can they be "safe enough, because they don't make too many, so how many people can they really hurt?" Can they import components without a tariff because dealing with import duties is a high burden "as a percentage of turnover?"

 

[For The Popcorn]

Well boys and girls, looks like the days of cheap Chinese pcbs is over.

A comment to my post on another forum said that the SSN requirement at JLC has disappeared, probably in reaction to a sudden decrease in orders from US citizens unwilling to hand over their SSN to a Chinese company. I took a look.

Indeed, the requirement is gone. The options are now DDP (JLC pays the duties and fees on your behalf – charging them to you of course) with the only shipping options being DHL and UPS (or maybe it's Federal Express). The low-cost shipping options are gone.

They explain that the tarrif situation is in flux and may change but at the moment they are adding 175% to your bill, but they will refund any difference if it's actually lower at the time of shipping.

So 5 copies of a 58mm x 32mm pcb will cost $2 + $3.50 tarrif. OK, that's still not unreasonable. But, as far as I recall, the cost for DHL shipping has increased substantially! $30! So my $2 boards would cost over $35 delivered.

The 2nd picture appeared in my Mahjong game last night. It had never appeared before. I wonder if the Eagle's ruffled feathers are sending a message.

 

[Diver300]

One can always come up with an "as a percent" of turnover argument to justify a position, but any entrepreneur SHOULD know, there are fixed costs of doing business, regardless of company size. If they don't know that and yell loudly about unfair regulation, can we just let businesses that employ less than 100 people make power supplies that emit EMI? Can they be "safe enough, because they don't make too many, so how many people can they really hurt?" Can they import components without a tariff because dealing with import duties is a high burden "as a percentage of turnover?"

There is no reason to let small businesses not comply with regulations, like tariffs or EMC / safety rules.

The costs of things like EMC test is a larger percentage of turnover, but I can't how it could be different.

However, when I was running a small business, many regulations had annual costs, independent of turnover. I suppose the one that strikes me as most damaging is the cost of published standards. If someone wants to find out what is needed in a product, it can take many standards, each of which is hundreds of dollars.

For instance, https://www.iso.org/publication/PUB200270.html, just under $600 to find out rules about cybersecurity.

 

[ZipZapOuch]

There is no reason to let small businesses not comply with regulations, like tariffs or EMC / safety rules.

The costs of things like EMC test is a larger percentage of turnover, but I can't how it could be different.

However, when I was running a small business, many regulations had annual costs, independent of turnover. I suppose the one that strikes me as most damaging is the cost of published standards. If someone wants to find out what is needed in a product, it can take many standards, each of which is hundreds of dollars.

For instance, https://www.iso.org/publication/PUB200270.html, just under $600 to find out rules about cybersecurity.

So,
(1) you're developing a new product with such thin margins that $600 is an annoyance?
(2) And do you really view the purchase price of the ISO standard as the hurdle? How about all the time to understand the jargon, the context, the sub-category that your product and application fall into and the hundreds of pages you need to cull through and the hours and hours of time that may take. Finally, understanding and applying the test methods understand if you meet the requirement is way more than $600. $600 is a drop in the bucket.

(3) The problem with many engineers with broad knowledge running departments or companies is, they want to solve everything themselves. Sometimes,(oftentimes) it is way cheaper, faster, and higher quality to hire an expert. An expert who already owns the standard, and can quote it forward and backward and can give you and your team an explaination like you're five-year-olds and get you running in a few hours. The question is not, "are you a good enough engineer to figure it out?" The question is, "should you bother figuring it out?"

 

[For The Popcorn]

Bringing this back to the topic at hand....

JCL has provided additional information on their handling of tarrifs.