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Amplifier Modification

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Hydro-Cell

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hi all im new to the forum so hi to all

i have a question that i cant find an answer to.

i have a 555 frequency generator, putting out a frequency of about 43khz.
im looking for an amplifier capable of amplifying this signal.

looking for a total output power of 50watts or therabouts. the only idea i had was to get a schematic for a 50watt audio amplifier (20khz max) and modify it to accept 43khz

the input/output impedance needs to be 50ohm as it will have a bandpass filter after it, this will then goto an antenna

i would like to use the 43khz frequency on the amplifier rather than a 10.75khz harmonic

any help on how to modify an audio amp would be great, a schematic would be even better.

cheers guys
 
Many audio amplifiers go up to hundreds of kHz.
50W into 50 ohms is an output voltage of 50VRMS or 100V p-p for your square-wave.

Are you using electrolysis of water to make hydrogen and oxygen to add to the intake of your car so it will burn its valves and pistons and make too much nitrogen oxide pollution? HHO does not work!
 
the project is for hho production yes. But however its ot added to the air intake and nor does the engine run lean.

the engine runs on just hho. i did read some of the arguements in another thread on here and while some could be considered valid, i dont belive that they are projected with all the facts in mind....i for one have a 9.0hp honda engine completely modified to run on hho, this involves a custom made carb, electronic ignition and exhaust as well as retiming and valve timing.

although you dont belive that this technology works please dont leave my question unanswered,
is there an amplifier you could suggest that can amplify this frequency range with great efficiency, i was trying to steer away from audio amps due to that they have 8ohm output and would require impedance matching which i havnt got a clue how to do...unless you can point me in the right direction on that one aswell

cheers
 
the project is for hho production yes. But however its ot added to the air intake and nor does the engine run lean.

the engine runs on just hho. i did read some of the arguements in another thread on here and while some could be considered valid, i dont belive that they are projected with all the facts in mind....i for one have a 9.0hp honda engine completely modified to run on hho, this involves a custom made carb, electronic ignition and exhaust as well as retiming and valve timing.

although you dont belive that this technology works please dont leave my question unanswered,
is there an amplifier you could suggest that can amplify this frequency range with great efficiency, i was trying to steer away from audio amps due to that they have 8ohm output and would require impedance matching which i havnt got a clue how to do...unless you can point me in the right direction on that one aswell

cheers
I have never seen a car with a tiny 9hp engine so maybe you are powering a lawn mower with the hydrogen fuel cell?

I don't think only 50W makes enough hydrogen. An engine that produces 1hp uses 746W worth of fuel if there are no losses. So a 1000W fuel cell might make enough hydrogen to power a 1hp engine.

Most audio amps are class-AB with an efficiency of only 60% but their frequency response goes higher than 43kHz. The 60% efficiency is with a sine-wave so they will have a higher efficiency with your square-wave input and output.
Class-D audio amps have a higher efficiency but have a filter at the output which limits their max frequency to about 20kHz.

An amplifier with an output of 50W RMS into 8 ohms has a square-wave output of 57V p-p.
Since you want 50W into 50 ohms then a custom-made transformer can stepup the voltage to 100V p-p but the amplifier would overheat since music is not at full power all the time.
Or an amplifier rated for 155W into 8 ohms will have an output of 100V p-p and would not get too hot.
 
Check out the Supertex MD7120. I've only seen the data sheet, but it promises to deliver +/- 100V swing at pretty high frequencies. Perhaps they have a good application note with a complete schematic and parts list. Drawbacks include where to buy it, and it is a QFN package which will be challenging to solder.
 
cheers for the info guys, this may help you see what i want to achieve.

audioguru quite rightly said it takes about 750 ish watts for 1 hp
this is in terms of brute force power. what i am trying to do is achieve resonance. im sure you will all agree that you can destroy an object when you match its resonant frequency.. the idea i have will not use any steel plates or electricity blasted into water. it will instead use electromagnetic radio waves broadcasted at 42.845 khz (apparently waters resonant frequency)

i assume by your previous post audio guru that class d amplifiers would be the type used in cars???
is it possible to modify such am amplifier??? i would guess not but worth a try

the md7120 chip looks very good but a little bit over the top for my application but then it is still an option

idealy i would opt for an RF power amplifier with an LC Tank circuit so i can tune it myself to the frequency i need. in reality i belive that 10watts will be acceptable but 50 watts would allow me more power to conduct research
 
Don't waste your time, HHO is a scam and the effort, time & money you put into it will never be returned. www.Overunity.com has lots of HHO projects that don't work.

Read this
Scientific proof debunking the "run your car on water" scams

yes i agree m8 the "run your car on water" "water4gas" etc are scams.
these use mason jars or similar with upto 80amps running through them and only produce 1 litre per minute of gas.

however i asked a question about modifying or making an amplifier for a specific job i assume that it was the frequency i asked for that gave it away that it was for a hho project.
i have tried to explain what i want to do but everone i ask (not just you guys) always seem to say dont boter its a scam etc etc

this is not a scam as i have designed it so therefore it cannot be a scam. this is a project that i have decided to build after reading all the facts. and the fact that i have a cell that can run a 9hp 350cc engine on its own and runs self sufficient proves to me this is valid and viable technology. the project i am currently working on is about the size of a small car and will be used for energy (electricity production)

any more help on the above question would be most appreciated.
oh i forgot to mention before the signal generator produces sine wave
 
Stanley Meyers wrongly said that water resonates at 43kHz. His patent was never proved and he was sued in court for fraud and lost.

Water resonates at a 2.45GHz microwave frequency. That is how a microwave oven works. Then the resonating water molecules heat up and turn into steam, not hydrogen and oxygen.

An ordinary car radio has an ouput at clipping of about 14 watts per channel into 4 ohms. They are bridged class-AB not class-D.
 
idont want to get into an argument on this but 2.45 ghz is NOT the resonant frequency of water, many people have said that it is when it isnt.

a microwave works by vibrating molecules which makes them rub against each other causing friction and in turn causing heat to be made. a microve no more resonates water than a kettle both boil water and both make steam and the probably even use the same power to do it.

ther ehave been many people using the 43khz frequency to produce hho from water. keely, tesla, meyers to name a few. bob boyce recently made a cell using this frequency and its harmonics produce 100 litres per minute from 60amps

this technology does work and it will only be a matter of time before someone cracks it. there was a quote on the tv for the new synergy drive from albert einstein......."if at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it"

i quite like this quote, it drives me forward. you are not the first to try and convince me that this is all fake. only the fact of the matter is i have a working prototype that does the job. if you are ever in newcastle i can arrange for you to take a look.
 
Of course HHO in a car is fake because nobody has proved that it increases the fuel economy.
 
but im not using it in a car so your theory is flawed, anyway im not getting anywhere here so lets leave it at that. its pointless argueing over something we will never agree on so lets agree to disagree.

cheers for the info you previously provided
 
this technology does work and it will only be a matter of time before someone cracks it.

In what way does it work? - obviously you can create hydrogen and oxygen by electrolysis, and you can then burn them in an internal combustion engine to get mechanical energy from it.

The trick is how much energy it takes to split the water, and how much mechanical energy you get out at the end - you ALWAYS make a loss, and a considerable one.

The 'holy grail' is to use the engine to feed an alternator that spilts the water - but this requires over 100% efficiency, which is obviously impossible - and is why no one has ever managed to do it (and probably never will).
 
HHO has already been demonstrated at a scam over & over. Show us a link that says water resonates at less than 2.5Ghz and even then all you get is steam.
Your best bet is travel over to www.overunity.com with the scads of others who belive the fairy tale and all but worship Stanley Meyers.
 
In what way does it work? - obviously you can create hydrogen and oxygen by electrolysis, and you can then burn them in an internal combustion engine to get mechanical energy from it.

The trick is how much energy it takes to split the water, and how much mechanical energy you get out at the end - you ALWAYS make a loss, and a considerable one.

The 'holy grail' is to use the engine to feed an alternator that spilts the water - but this requires over 100% efficiency, which is obviously impossible - and is why no one has ever managed to do it (and probably never will).

this is mostly true, yes an engine is used to run an alternator to produce power to run a cell to produce hho and this hho runs the engine... you say this would require over 100% efficiency. this is only true for brute force electrolysis where a battery is just connected to steel plates in water.
HOWEVER the system that i and many others are experimenting with uses pulse waves to allow the bonds in the molecules to bounce like springs. to do this will take up very little power as all i am doing is making the water resonate. now the trick is that when these springs bounce to there strech limit they become very weak.....while they are very weak voltage that is constantly being fed into the water at very low amps somewhere in the region of 5 amps. the water begins to break into hho rather rapidly.

now to summerise 12 volts @ 5 amps with excess of 80litres of gas per minute

do the math thats IMPOSSIBLE. OR IS IT.

i have this system working and am in the process of perfecting it to produce more hho. hence my origional question above
 
LOL yea right. More pseudoscience gobblygook. I'm sure there is a yootoobe video of it out there.
Show us how it's done and we'll be happy to tell you why it doesn't work as you claim.
Here's some reading that should help but probably wont.
The simple answer is that HHO generators don't work!

The idea behind the HHO generator is that a small concentration of hydrogen gas (between 2% and 5%) can increase the speed of the flame front, the leading edge of the burning gases in the combustion chamber. In turn, this would allow an engine to be run in a lean condition, allowing a higher compression ratio, thereby increasing the efficiency (by around 10%).

HOWEVER
, the compression ratio of your engine is fixed. Even if the HHO device could provide the 2% hydrogen, running your engine lean would simply be running your engine lean. Without changing the compression ratio, you cannot increase the efficiency of the engine (without nasty side effects).



HHO Devices Cannot Supply the Hydrogen

In order to even be effective (in an engine designed for it), an HHO device would need to produce enough hydrogen to replace approximately 2% of the airflow. To replace just 1%

of the airflow into a 1.8 L engine running at 2400 rpm would require the electrolysis of about two teapoons of water every minute, which would require an input power of about 5,200 watts (7 horse power). For a 12 Volt electrical system, this requires about 430 Amps. The wire you would need to carry this current is about as thick as your index finger, not counting the insulation. Also, the heat loss due to inefficiencies in the electrolysis would cause the water in the HHO device to completely boil out within a handful of minutes. At this rate, 1 quart of water would last only 90 minutes, assuming you could prevent it from boiling away.



The Extra Engine Load Doesn't Offset the Gains

Even if your car's electrical system could handle it (most alternators will only produce about 100 Amps), the extra energy produced by the alternator must be produced by the engine. If a car's engine would typically need to produce 30 horsepower to cruise down the highway, then it would need to produce about 40 horsepower to cruise down the highway and power the HHO devce. Even if the HHO could magically allow your engine to be run a little lean (without consequence), as some promoters claim, then you would be increasing fuel usage by 33% in order to increase economy by ~5%, netting a 32% increase in fuel usage. Using 32% more fuel to do the same job is NOT an increase in efficiency.


But Person X Said They Got Better Mileage

First of all, Person X just might be one of those promoting the scam. Sometimes, it is a person who followed the directions and saw an improvement in mileage, but it isn't caused by the HHO device. Almost every HHO device out there only draws a few amps, 100 times lower than it should in order to do anything. This means that it doesn't produce enough HHO to do anything. So how do people see increased mileage? Sometimes they just start driving better. Also, mileage is not a constant. It depends on various environmental factors. But the major reason is, they are running their engines lean.


All of these HHO kit instructions tell the installer to add a device to "enhance" the Mass Air Flow sensor. These devices actually fool the computer into thinking that the air flow is restricted, when it isn't. The engine then injects less gasoline into the cylinders, causing the engine to operate in an overly lean condition. Frequently, this actually does increase engine output, but not without significant costs. Prolonged lean running will lead to fairly expensive engine damage. It also causes increased smog emissions. Running an engine lean is a simple thing to do, and there are many good reasons why manufacturers don't do it.



But Real People Have Tested These Things, Right?

Yes. Real experts have indeed tested these devices, and they have been widely debunked. The most prominent test was a Mythbusters episode in which they tested and debunked several fuel saver schemes. Popular Mechanics has performed their own test of what many scammers would called a "super" HHO system guaranteed to produce results, and found that it did pretty much nothing. Further more, many of the HHO scams use the freely available HHO devices as a leader to hook people on far more expensive gadgets that don't work. Even though there are some convincing videos on places like YouTube, and testimonials on websites, to date, no qualified expert has been able to show any HHO device actually improving fuel economy. There is even a million dollar challenge to demonstrate a working HHO device which improves fuel economy that has gone unclaimed for several years.
 
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And this. Running your house on water faces the same problem.
The great "run your car on water" scam May 2008 NEW: Check out the One Million Dollar HHO Challenge for anyone who can demostrate a consistent 25% or greater fuel-saving from one of these HHO devices. Time for the scammers to put-up or shut-up
As oil prices rise, the quest for ways to replace fossil fuels or at least improve the mileage of modern vehicles becomes increasingly urgent.
All around the globe, teams of highly educated scientists slave away in an attempt to squeeze the last few percent of efficiency out of the conventional internal combustion engine because they know that even small improvements can have a big benefit to an auto-maker's bottom line.
At the same time, there appear to be legions of "garage mechanics" who are also working on ways to improve the mileage of your car.
All kinds of crazy devices are now flooding the market and promising to slash your fuel bill by improving your mileage, or maybe even completely eliminating the need to buy gasoline at all.
Perhaps the most prevalent of these systems is the HHO hydrogen generator system that is being pitched by numerous different individuals and small companies.
Connect one of these "fuel cells" up to your car's electrical system, fill it with water and run a pipe to your car's air intake and voila... you'll immediately see a significant improvement in your gas mileage.
Sounds almost too good to be true doesn't it?
And what is it they say about things that sound too good to be true?
Let's take a closer look at those HHO "hydrogen fuel cells".
They are actually nothing more than a simple electrolysis device that uses electricity to split water into its constituent components -- two atoms of hydrogen and one of oxygen.
There is nothing magical about this, it's a process that's been around for a very long time.
The gases generated by the electrolysis of water (sometimes referred to as Brown's Gas) can be recombined by way of combustion to release energy.
Unfortunately, the first law of thermodynamics states quite clearly that the energy generated by recombining the hydrogen and oxygen through combustion can only ever be equal to the amount of energy it took to separate them.
In fact it's worse than that.
Because there all sorts of losses involved in the generation of the electricity, the delivery of it to the electrolysis cell and then the combustion process, we actually recover far less energy from burning the hydrogen than it took to create it.
So, once those losses are taken into account, these useless devices will actually cause your car to use *more* fuel - that extra fuel doing nothing more than heating the water in that electrolysis cell and the wires that lead to it.
What's more, the introduction of hydrogen and oxygen into your engine's intake can also lead to the car's computer incorrectly adjusting the air/fuel mixture to the point where fuel consumption either worsens further, or damage could be done to your engine.
As usual in the wonderful world of physics, there are no free lunches.
But a little scientific fact is not about to stand in the way of those who think they can make money from the current energy crisis.
They still insist you can increase your gas mileage by sucking power from your alternator and using it to create hydrogen.
Why would you buy anything (be it plans, instructions or ready-built kits) from someone who has not the faintest grasp of basic science?
Here's a **broken link removed** that makes outrageous claims you'll "double your mileage" and "generate free energy".
Of course they work hard tug on your heartstrings and feelings of guilt by claiming that you'll also be saving the planet.
Well I'm sorry but this is nothing but a bunch of lies.
Nobody has yet broken the first law of thermodynamics and there's no sign that anyone will. These laws are immutable and have withstood the test of time and many, many brilliant scientific minds.
But what about all these glowing **broken link removed**?
Chances are that some are fake. Others are just poor deluded fools who want it to be true so much that they fool themselves into believing this worthless idea actually works.
Notice how the vast majority of these testimonials come from people such as "Eric from Wisconsin" or "R.A. Foreman (USA)". There is no way to contact these people, let alone even verify that they actually exist.
You'll also notice something else about many of those who pop up claiming that they're using the system and it works... they provide you with a link to a website. That link is inevitably either a paid-per-click link, or the address of a website promoting these scams. In the first instance, the scammer earns a dollar or so every time someone (including you) clicks on that link. In the second case they're usually part of an affiliate or referral scheme whereby they earn a few dollars for every kit, eBook or other piece of snake oil that's sold.
Want proof?
Well look at **broken link removed** where it's proudly stated that "earn 50% commissions for every referral that places an order".
So of course these people are going to lie to you and say it works, because they want you to believe them and visit the websites or buy the product so that *they* get paid.
And, by the water4gas.com website's own admission, some of its fellow-scammers are earning tens of thousands of dollars every month by duping people into believing this stuff actually works, often simply by telling giant lies and stating that they get enormous fuel-savings when in fact they get none. Don't become one of their victims.
**broken link removed** Another good clue to the fact that this is a scam is the way these systems are being marketed on sites such as YouTube. Just look at the result of this search on YouTube.
See how the scammers are spamming YouTube with worthless, endlessly repeated ads that simply serve to promote these worthless products? If this was a genuine product that worked as advertised, word of mouth advertising would ensure that it sold like wildfire. Spamming is the last resort for those pitching products of no value which will never ever receive word-of-mouth endorsement by those who have wasted their money on them.
Please do everyone a favour and whenever someone has uploaded multiple videos all the same and all pitching to promote these lame schemes, take a moment to flag them all as spam. Just think, by doing this, you may be saving some innocent dupe from being fleeced.
This horrible scam is simply an attempt to separate you from a whopping $97 of your hard-earned cash. That money will get you access to a couple of e-books that purport to contain the secrets of doubling your fuel economy by breaking the laws of thermodynamics.
Don't waste your money. Don't become just another sucker who is taken in by shysters like these (and there are plenty more out there, I've just given one example).
In today's world of rapidly rising fuel prices, $97 won't buy you much gas but it'll get you a lot further than the worthless plans and instructions in these books.
If you have a website of your own, please add a link to this page so that it can be found by those poor hapless souls that might be contemplating wasting good money on one of these scams.
Now check out the scientific proof that shows just how impossible these "run your car on water" scams really are.
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