AC motor repair

[halleffector]

This should be a simple fix, but I cannot see it.

**broken link removed**

**broken link removed**

The two black wires (of which one is cut) appear to be simply shorted together.

Where does the blue wire go? Where does the black wire go? Note that the two wires from the windings are simply twisted together. Should they be connected together like that?

There are no other disconnected or otherwise cut wires visible.

 

[cowboybob]

Welcome to ETO, hallefector!

Can you take some pics a little closer? Maybe a little bit better focused as well.

Can't really see what you're referring to.

 

[MaxHeadRoom78]

You do not state plate details on the motor?
I assume it is 1ph .
If so you should be able to identfy 2 windings, they will either be identical resistance if so it would not matter which is start and run, the alternative is 2 different resistances.
For distinct Start & Run.
Max.

 

[MikeMl]

...The two black wires (of which one is cut) appear to be simply shorted together...

The reason that the two blk wires are shorted is because they go a Klixon thermal overload sensor buried in the winding. Those are normally-closed contacts that open only if the motor overheats. They should interrupt power to the winding...

 

[strantor]

Need more info on the motor. I have a couple of reasons to suspect this isn't your average single phase AC induction motor:
1. It doesn't look like one. The finned aluminum-extrusion-esque motor frame looks more like BLDC motors I've seen.
2. This is your very first (and currently only) post on this site. You signed up solely to ask this question, and the name you chose was "hall effect"(or). Hall effect sensors are a common staple in BLDC motors.

So what's the scoop? Why not specify exactly what you're dealing with?

 

[MaxHeadRoom78]

Need more info on the motor. I have a couple of reasons to suspect this isn't your average single phase AC induction motor:
1. It doesn't look like one. The finned aluminum-extrusion-esque motor frame looks more like BLDC motors I've seen.

Although many motors, especially 3ph are fitted with finned exteriors now for VFD usage/cooling, and the rotor does not seem to be P.M. for a BLDC?
Max.

 

[strantor]

Although many motors, especially 3ph are fitted with finned exteriors now for VFD usage/cooling, and the rotor does not seem to be P.M. for a BLDC?
Max.

Right, but have you seen that finned design on single phase motors? I haven't, but I learn something new everyday. and there is clearly a capacitor connected to it. In summary i don't know WTF it is and it seems like it should have been common sense to post all pertinent info in the first post.

Assuming it's nothing more than a typical single phase induction motor, there still are dozens of wiring possibilities depending whether it's PSC, cap start, cap run/start, reversible, multispeed, etc. If i were more in touch with the world of fractional HP single phase motors I could probably rule most of those out by prior knowledge of common wire coloring schemes, but even that varies by locale, which also isn't given.

 

[MaxHeadRoom78]

Right, but have you seen that finned design on single phase motors? I haven't, but I learn something new everyday.

Yes they are a little rarer, but there are a few makes out there for this construction, I know for sure WEG makes 1ph motors with this type of frame.
Max.

 

[halleffector]

Thanks for the help. Here is another picture, I'm not sure if it is any better though. (Edit: I'd be happy to take a picture of something specific if anyone wants that)



I tried to search for similar motors to get a reference for what the wiring should look like, but I didn't find anything similar. What should I search for?

I'm not able to find any plate with details for the motor.

 

[MaxHeadRoom78]

From what I see it appears to be a 2 pole 1ph induction motor with both windings appear to be the same, if so, they can alternate between start and run for reversal.
the first thing I would do is differentiate or identify the two windings.
This is basic connections.

Max.

 

[MikeMl]

halleffector :

You didn't acknowledge my post. Here it is again:

 

[halleffector]

halleffector :

You didn't acknowledge my post. Here it is again:

View attachment 97187

Sorry about that, thanks!

So this thermal overload sensor must be connected for the motor to run at all? If it overheats then it is equivalent to an open circuit?

 

[halleffector]

Here are some additional images, with some of the insulation removed for the red and white wires:

**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**

 

[halleffector]

From what I see it appears to be a 2 pole 1ph induction motor with both windings appear to be the same, if so, they can alternate between start and run for reversal.
the first thing I would do is differentiate or identify the two windings.
This is basic connections.
View attachment 97186
Max.

What procedure should I use to identify the two windings? I'm guessing I need to read up on something to do this, is there a term that I should search for? Or does it require more general knowledge beyond basic skills?

 

[MaxHeadRoom78]

There should be two conductors for each set of winding coils, if two ends are connected then you will read the total resistance of the two at some point, the ideal is to identify each and how close each resistance is.
Do you have a multi-meter?
Max.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Sometimes the wires of the motor may all be one color, but there are printed identifiers on the wires like T1, T2 etc. Are there any such markings?

 

[Les Jones]

Hi halleffector,
What is the history of this motor before your first post. (I.E. Did it come from a scrap yard ? Did you remove it from a machine that had just stopped working ?) Can you post a picture of the inside of the connection box on the motor. Just with the cover removed. Do not disconnect any wires. Is there a centrifugal switch on the end plate that has been removed ? (Or on the one still fitted to the motor ?) Can you trace out the wiring of the windings as it is not easy to do just from pictures as some wires are hidden by wires in front of them. There should be four ends of the enameled wire of the windings. Can you mark them in some way to identify them and take resistance measurements and post the readings. (I think that will result in six readings.)

Les.

 

[halleffector]

There should be two conductors for each set of winding coils, if two ends are connected then you will read the total resistance of the two at some point, the ideal is to identify each and how close each resistance is.
Do you have a multi-meter?
Max.

I do have a multimeter and I can easily use one. However, I'm not experienced with debugging motors and what you're suggesting is actually unclear to me. I'm not sure if it is possible to elaborate further, but if you could that would be great. Thanks for the suggestion regardless.

 

[halleffector]

Sometimes the wires of the motor may all be one color, but there are printed identifiers on the wires like T1, T2 etc. Are there any such markings?

There doesn't appear to be any such markings unfortunately.

 

[MaxHeadRoom78]

I do have a multimeter and I can easily use one. However, I'm not experienced with debugging motors and what you're suggesting is actually unclear to me. I'm not sure if it is possible to elaborate further, but if you could that would be great. Thanks for the suggestion regardless.

Look at the #10 post and you will see just two windings or path of resistance to identify, the two coils may, or not be connected to each other, just a question of simple resistance check.
The coils poles pairs are wound and mounted opposite each other.
As Les Jones mentioned, what is the history?
Max.