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a very newbie question

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knucklehead

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i know NOTHING about electrical systems, so presumably this post will draw some chuckles. i'm cool with that, as long as said chuckles are followed by some help! i'm desperate!

i'm trying to set up what i believe to be a very basic electrical system in a custom bicycle i'm building. what i'd like to do is to power 4 small lights (comparable to a cars turn indicators, but without blinking), an old-school "aa-OOOO-ga" car horn, and eventually, maybe even a small speaker system for my ipod.

can ANYONE give me a step by step of how this MIGHT work?

i know i need a power supply, fuses, switches for each of the components, and a grounding point. i was hoping to use a basic car battery for the power supply. from there, i know nothing. how do i wire from the + to the fuses? then to the switches? then to the components? how do i know what wires to use?

i'm really at a loss here. when you're done laughing at me, please -- help me out!

thanks so much in advance.

: : :

blair, sf.ca
 
It doesn't matter which way round you connect the horn, lights etc.

Rather than using the bicycle frame a as a return point, use a two wire system (one wire for + and another for -), it's far more reliable.
 
The lights don't use much current, you can use #18 wire but the horn uses a lot so use #14 wire for that. If you don't know about series and parallel circuits, get a book from the library and read up.
 
I completly agree with Hero on running a ground wire. I've had many lights and other components fail on trucks from a bad connection to the frame or body. If it is to be used outdoors and will get wet, I'd run a ground wire to everything and take your time to seal all your connections good.

Is this a bicycle you pedel? Or a motor bike or motorcycle? If its the pedel kind of bike, I would think twice about using a car battery. They are heavy, have enough amps in them to seriously hurt you if you jump anything metal across the two posts and have acid in them. That is certinly the last thing you need all over you in the event of a wipeout. Some of the more knowledgable members here might have a better idea, but one thing that came to mind is a rechargable battery from a cordless powertool. Some smaller ones are 12v.

What kind of horn do you have? The real ooga horns from the 40's used an electric motor to make the noise. They drew quite a bit of current. Some (alot in the states here) were 6v and will burn up at 12v.
 
hero999...

i will do that. thank you for the input!

russlk...

'bout the only thing i know about series circuits vs. parallel circuits is the difference between them. i've been researching the internet furiously, but it's quite hard to go from absolutely zero knowledge using the web. i don't know if it's the danger factor or what, but there's little to no "step-by-step" type information. i will pick up a couple books this weekend just to pad my knowledge, but i registered here hoping to circumvent some of that. (cheating, i know, i know. hahaha!!!) thanks for your advice on wire gauges!

andy1845c...

the type of horn i'm looking at purchasing is THIS ONE. it's stated as a 12v horn, using 3.5 amps. clearly, this is a reproduction.

as far as the power source, and your recommendations against using a car battery, i'll give you some additional details and then welcome more feedback if you have it.

the bike i'm building is a trike conversion, working from a classic schwinn stingray frame. as a trike, it will have a large back section which i'm doing some custom fiberglass work on to completely enclose with a locking lid. this is where the entire electrical system will be constructed. i will NOT be riding in the rain. as a trike, the likelihood of wiping out is essentially non-existent, and the weight is not an issue either, as the bike is geared to be cruised slowly on flat ground.

all that said, would you still recommend that i look into alternate power sources? keep in mind also that i'll be powering more stuff in the future. these lights and the horn are merely the first two of four intended electrical outputs. eventually, i'll want to wire up a stereo system and then hydraulics for the front end. (the hydros MAY get their own battery.)

any additional thoughts?

i also have some other specific questions, if anyone cares to impart any additional knowledge on me. when creating my circuit, i'll need to go from the + lead to a fusebox, right? if each output device needs a separate fuse, how do i split this wire from the lead to the fuses? further to that, when wiring from one fuse to four lights, how do i split THAT wire for each individual light?

i really feel silly here, but your knowledge is well-received and i so appreciate all of it.

cheers.

blair, sf.ca
 
thanks to all for the information.

hero999...i'll do that!

russlk...i'm trying to avoid a book at all costs, by registering here. hahaha!!! cheating, i know. i'm sure i'll grab a book at some point. thanks for your wiring help!

andy1845c...the horn i'm looking at purchasing is THIS ONE. 12v, 3.5 amps -- clearly a reproduction.

as far as your suggestion for looking at an alternate power source, let me give you some additional details and then welcome your feedback : the bike is a custom trike conversion i'm working on from a vintage schwinn stingray frame. it is a pedal-bike. as a trike, it'll have a large "trunk" space where the entire electrical system will live. (i'm making this from fiberglass, with a wood base, onto which all the wiring, fuses, etc., will be bolted down.) the bike will NEVER be ridden in the rain. weight is a non-issue, also, as the bike is for cruising slowly along the waterfront and has an appropriate gearing ratio for pullling weight.

all that said, would you still suggest i look at a different power source? keep in mind that in the future, i'll want to power additional things, too. such as a stereo system, and eventually, a hydraulic pump for the front end. the reason i considered a car battery is that i thought it might have ample power for me to add output devices in the future.

i have additional questions, too, other really amateur stuff that i could use anyone's help with : how do i split my wires? for example, coming out of the + lead, i'll need to go to a fuse panel of some variety, right? that fuse panel will have multiple fuses in it, yes? so how do i split that wire? and to that end, how do i split a wire coming out of one fuse and going to, say, four lights?

this must seem very silly to you all, but i really do appreciate all the information i'm getting.

cheers!

blair, sf.ca
 
Andy1845c said:
I completly agree with Hero on running a ground wire. I've had many lights and other components fail on trucks from a bad connection to the frame or body. If it is to be used outdoors and will get wet, I'd run a ground wire to everything and take your time to seal all your connections good.
In fact all fighter vehicles use a two wire system although the negitive battery terminal is connected to chassis the chassis isn't used to carry current, just for EMC screening and to stop the low voltage circuit from floating at a dangerously high voltage e.g. lightning induced or a fault with an inverter.
 
Hero999 said:
It doesn't matter which way round you connect the horn, lights etc.

Rather than using the bicycle frame a as a return point, use a two wire system (one wire for + and another for -), it's far more reliable.

will do! thanks!

Russlk said:
The lights don't use much current, you can use #18 wire but the horn uses a lot so use #14 wire for that. If you don't know about series and parallel circuits, get a book from the library and read up.

bummer! i was trying to avoid the library by coming here! hahahaha!! thanks for the wiring advice!

Andy1845c said:
I completly agree with Hero on running a ground wire. I've had many lights and other components fail on trucks from a bad connection to the frame or body. If it is to be used outdoors and will get wet, I'd run a ground wire to everything and take your time to seal all your connections good.

Is this a bicycle you pedel? Or a motor bike or motorcycle? If its the pedel kind of bike, I would think twice about using a car battery. They are heavy, have enough amps in them to seriously hurt you if you jump anything metal across the two posts and have acid in them. That is certinly the last thing you need all over you in the event of a wipeout. Some of the more knowledgable members here might have a better idea, but one thing that came to mind is a rechargable battery from a cordless powertool. Some smaller ones are 12v.

What kind of horn do you have? The real ooga horns from the 40's used an electric motor to make the noise. They drew quite a bit of current. Some (alot in the states here) were 6v and will burn up at 12v.

the horn is a reproduction. 12v horn, 3.5 amps. i'm SO glad you mentioned this, because i'd have never known.

let me give you some more information and then welcome any additional thoughts you may have on that alternate power source...

the bike in question is a pedal-bike, but it's not a commuter or a hill-climber or anything like that. this is a fully custom lowrider trike, built from an old stingray frame and several vintage parts, in conjunction with custom fabricated parts. as a trike, storage capacity is not an issue. i'm building a locking fiberglass "trunk" for the back which will hold the entire electrical system, bolted to a floorboard. also, in the future, i'll be adding additional output devices to the electrical system. likely a stereo system and a hydraulic setup. so i wanted to power it appropriately for the future and not necessarily the now.

all that said, would you still recommend an alternate power source?

i really appreciate all this input.

cheers!

: : :

blair, sf.ca
 
knucklehead said:
all that said, would you still recommend an alternate power source?

I guess if it was up to me I would look for somthing free of lead plates and liquid. ;) Knowing more about your design, I suppose you could use a car battery (I had visions of a 30 pound battery strapped to the frame with bungee cords or somthing, lol) But I still think finding a rechargable Nickel Cadium battery would be safer and better. I have a 18V cordless drill battery that puts out well over 10amps. I just used it to light two 55w fog lights with no problem at all. I would look for somthing closer to 12v though, or look into a circuit to reduce 18v to 12v. If one battery dosn't give you the runtime you need, you could carry several with you and recharge them between rides.

As far as your future power needs go, a stereo shouldn't be a problem, as long as its modest in size. If your looking to be able to feel the bass 4 miles away, your going to need a trailer for more batterys;) I don't know what a hydraulic setup for a bike is. You'll have to fill us in on that. That might get too power hungry for batterys too.

Edit: one other quick thought, you could use LEDs in your lights, as opposed to old fasioned bulbs, for very low current draw. With a couple leds in each of your 4 lights, and my 18v battery, I would imagine they would run for months before the battery wore out.
 
Last edited:
Stereo and Hydraulics? Sealed or Gell batteries a must or I think you will be charging a lot.. And how fast is this thing going to pedal with all that weight? Is it for show or to really use? I hope for show.
 
Andy1845c said:
I guess if it was up to me I would look for somthing free of lead plates and liquid. ;)

is a sealed or gell battery (as mentioned by mramos1) free of lead plates and liquid?

Andy1845c said:
Knowing more about your design, I suppose you could use a car battery (I had visions of a 30 pound battery strapped to the frame with bungee cords or somthing, lol)

don't think i didn't consider it! hahahaa!!

Andy1845c said:
But I still think finding a rechargable Nickel Cadium battery would be safer and better. I have a 18V cordless drill battery that puts out well over 10amps. I just used it to light two 55w fog lights with no problem at all. I would look for somthing closer to 12v though, or look into a circuit to reduce 18v to 12v. If one battery dosn't give you the runtime you need, you could carry several with you and recharge them between rides.

i will most certainly look into this. thank you!

Andy1845c said:
As far as your future power needs go, a stereo shouldn't be a problem, as long as its modest in size. If your looking to be able to feel the bass 4 miles away, your going to need a trailer for more batterys;) I don't know what a hydraulic setup for a bike is. You'll have to fill us in on that. That might get too power hungry for batterys too.

more on the hydros later. much later. i won't be able to afford that setup for at least 6 months. you'll hear from me again on the stereo, but i don't need to hear it 4 miles away. 4 BLOCKS, on the other hand... hahaha!!!

Andy1845c said:
Edit: one other quick thought, you could use LEDs in your lights, as opposed to old fasioned bulbs, for very low current draw. With a couple leds in each of your 4 lights, and my 18v battery, I would imagine they would run for months before the battery wore out.

you've really been incredibly helpful through all this, and i appreciate it.

cheers!

: : :

blair, sf.ca
 
mramos1 said:
Stereo and Hydraulics? Sealed or Gell batteries a must or I think you will be charging a lot.. And how fast is this thing going to pedal with all that weight? Is it for show or to really use? I hope for show.

it's for both riding and show. hydros are an entirely different front-end setup which will be swapped out for shows. (in other words, i won't be riding it with hydros.)

as far as weight goes, it's just a slow cruiser for showboating on the waterfront. doesn't need to go fast. and it's geared appropriately to pull a good bit of weight.

thanks for the input on the sealed and gell batteries! i'll look into it.

cheers!

: : :

blair, sf.ca
 
Post some pictures when you are done. Now if I had the bucks and smarts to make one, mine would have an electric motor :)
 
mramos1 said:
Post some pictures when you are done.

it's gonna be a ways off -- probably about 6 months or so -- but i will do so!

mramos1 said:
Now if I had the bucks and smarts to make one, mine would have an electric motor :)

good thought! i shoulda consulted you WAY earlier! hahaha!!!
 
You could always power you trike with an 8hp briggs... :D I think it would spin a bit too fast for the bike gear system, though...
 
Then it would no longer be a bicycle, it would be a moped and the breaks might not be up to scratch either!

Buy a propper motor bike!

Yes I know you're joking, I'm just saying in case someone takes it seriously.
 
:D Well, then they would deserve the Darwin Award... :D :D
 
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