'07 Jeep Wrangler Gauge Cluster Issues

[Tonygunslinger]

I have been searching everywhere for a solution to my problem.

I have a 2007 jeep wrangler and I pulled the gauge cluster out so I could install temporary colored stage gel to change the color lights. In doing so I removed the cluster needles. Upon installation I realized I don't know where to set the needles!

I soon made sense of this by warming the vehicle and installing the temp needle at the hallway. The fuel gauge I installed at full after filling up. Both while vehicle was running. The RPM and Speedo where set at "zero" while Jeep was off.

The problems I am experiencing are:
- Needles do not rise and fall smoothly. It is as if they are sticking.
-The needles all twitch or fluctuate when some sort of power is applied to the vehicle (ie lock/unlock with remote, or key in and turned to "on") and I don't remember this being "normal"
-Now, even after I "calibrated my Needles, I reinstalled the jeep doors and they offset from where they were... ie Fuel gauge basically dropped down by 100%.

I have reset them multiple times, I know that pressing too hard may cause sticking. But even at pressed only halfway in (not close to flush) they still stick.

I am at a loss and need some help before I go to the Stealership.

 

[jpanhalt]

With no picture, I suspect most of us are pulling a blank. It is possible that you damaged the meter drives or needle hubs when you pulled the needles off. When you pressed the needles on, you may also have done damage. The needles may have had a little adhesive (like a LocTite product) to keep them fixed to the driver shafts, absence of which when you replaced the needles may explain some of the symptoms.. Are the drivers stepper motors, air-core motors, or something else?

Worst case, you ruined the cluster and need a new one. You might find one at an automotive recycler (aka junk) yard or aftermarket dealer for less.

John

 

[Tonygunslinger]

With no picture, I suspect most of us are pulling a blank. It is possible that you damaged the meter drives or needle hubs when you pulled the needles off. When you pressed the needles on, you may also have done damage. The needles may have had a little adhesive (like a LocTite product) to keep them fixed to the driver shafts, absence of which when you replaced the needles may explain some of the symptoms.. Are the drivers stepper motors, air-core motors, or something else?

Worst case, you ruined the cluster and need a new one. You might find one at an automotive recycler (aka junk) yard or aftermarket dealer for less.

John

Well, a picture wont really show what is going on... I will have to try to get a video and post it somewhere online. Maybe I could email it to you...
What I do know is a lot of people in the Jeep community do this little mod. But no one has responded to my needle troubles...

 

[jpanhalt]

Are you sure they are not just lose needles created when you removed them?

As for getting the proper positions, it matters what type of "motor" drives the needle. I did a quick Google search and couldn't determine it easily. If you are plugged into the jeep community, maybe someone there will know. It is also entirely possible that the speedo and tach are one type and the temp and whatever else you have are another. When you start the car, do the gauges go full scale then back to zero?

John

 

[Tonygunslinger]

Are you sure they are not just lose needles created when you removed them?

As for getting the proper positions, it matters what type of "motor" drives the needle. I did a quick Google search and couldn't determine it easily. If you are plugged into the jeep community, maybe someone there will know. It is also entirely possible that the speedo and tach are one type and the temp and whatever else you have are another. When you start the car, do the gauges go full scale then back to zero?

John

I have posted on many forums. Last resort was here because I never thought of it. My gauges do not full scale.

 

[jpanhalt]

I associate gauges going full scale or to zero (that is, against a physical stop) with stepper motors. That is how they are "zeroed" each time the car is started. If they are not steppers, then getting the needles back to their original positions is probably important.

Did you use a tool to remove them or just pull them off? Do the needles have hubs that you can squeeze lightly to tighten them on the shafts?

If the needle is tight on the shaft and behaves differently now than it did before, then you have probably damaged the gauge or connector. You could probably tolerate inaccuracy with everything except the speedometer. Can just the speedometer be replaced?

John

 

[Tonygunslinger]

I associate gauges going full scale or to zero (that is, against a physical stop) with stepper motors. That is how they are "zeroed" each time the car is started. If they are not steppers, then getting the needles back to their original positions is probably important.

Did you use a tool to remove them or just pull them off? Do the needles have hubs that you can squeeze lightly to tighten them on the shafts?

If the needle is tight on the shaft and behaves differently now than it did before, then you have probably damaged the gauge or connector. You could probably tolerate inaccuracy with everything except the speedometer. Can just the speedometer be replaced?

John

I used an interior panel plastic prybar. Similar to what a lot of the other jeepers used. I was rather gentle about it. I took videos of the gauges acting weird but I need to figure out where to post them...
I am not too sure what you mean by hubs though. the face of the needle can be popped on or off of another cylindrical piece (hub like) and that is slid onto the shaft. That hub like piece hasn't moved for me. The shaft slides down into to the motor/retaining ring. The needles, installed can be moved to almost any position by gentle pushing, they turn around the dial at about 1/2" increments. But they wont be set right like that.
They do not have physical stoppers.

 

[jpanhalt]

Unfortunately, most of my experience with needles and gauges is with watches and similar. I used the term "hub" to describe where the needle is physically connected to the spindle of the gauge. Any sort of cover over that connection doesn't matter to me. Still, if the needle is loose on the spindle, it won't indicate accurately. If the needle is fixed to the spindle, then any bouncing around has to come from the gauge itself, which would indicate a problem with the gauge. So far as I know, while the electronics is repairable, gauges themselves are not repairable.

John

 

[Tonygunslinger]

Unfortunately, most of my experience with needles and gauges is with watches and similar. I used the term "hub" to describe where the needle is physically connected to the spindle of the gauge. Any sort of cover over that connection doesn't matter to me. Still, if the needle is loose on the spindle, it won't indicate accurately. If the needle is fixed to the spindle, then any bouncing around has to come from the gauge itself, which would indicate a problem with the gauge. So far as I know, while the electronics is repairable, gauges themselves are not repairable.

John

 

[jpanhalt]

The jumping shown in the second video could be electrical noise. Automotive electrical supply is notoriously noisy. Be sure all the contacts on the plug are well seated and that you have a good electrical ground connection.

The tachometer in the fist video does look a little like a sticking needle or something in its drive motor. As for the temperature and fuel gauges, I would verify proper working of both gauges. It seems unlikely that the sensors could be damaged by what you have done. I had a problem last year with the temperature gauge on a tractor -- it read normally on start-up, but quickly went into the red. Was able to remove just that part of the cluster, test it with hot water and eventually found that the problem was a loose needle. That is, the gauge mechanism was designed so the spindle went considerably below "cold" at rest. The loose needle was forced 10 to 15° CW on the shaft by the physical stop at "cold." Thus, at cold, it was still against the CCW stop, but as soon as it warmed a little, it was way past operating temp. Your needle could be set so far off that it never moves into warm.

John

 

[Tonygunslinger]

The jumping shown in the second video could be electrical noise. Automotive electrical supply is notoriously noisy. Be sure all the contacts on the plug are well seated and that you have a good electrical ground connection.

The tachometer in the fist video does look a little like a sticking needle or something in its drive motor. As for the temperature and fuel gauges, I would verify proper working of both gauges. It seems unlikely that the sensors could be damaged by what you have done. I had a problem last year with the temperature gauge on a tractor -- it read normally on start-up, but quickly went into the red. Was able to remove just that part of the cluster, test it with hot water and eventually found that the problem was a loose needle. That is, the gauge mechanism was designed so the spindle went considerably below "cold" at rest. The loose needle was forced 10 to 15° CW on the shaft by the physical stop at "cold." Thus, at cold, it was still against the CCW stop, but as soon as it warmed a little, it was way past operating temp. Your needle could be set so far off that it never moves into warm.

John

I will have to look into this electrical noise possibility. Thanks.
I think my gauges are operating correctly, as the temp gauge seems to move appropriately to mid point on the gauge and shows at cooler points after the vehicle is off for a bit, and the fuel gauge very slowly moves lower and lower. RPMs could be off a bit... I don't know what the jeep idles at so I put it at 750 or close to. Speedo is close to GPS speedos.