Home made PCB's

Well i usally just get PCB's made from those useal chinese places.
But i would like to start saving money.
I was wondering what options i have.
Iv seen the laser printer iron on ones.
UV light ones...

I only have InkJet printers in my home, they are nice, but i dont know if they are up to the task.

Id really like to make some sort of setup to where i can just make a design in Eagle, print it at home and get along making it.
Id really like to stay away from as many chemicals as possible.

Also how easy is it to do double sided PCB's?? Becasue i think i need to do some re-designing in Eagle.

markland556 said:

Well i usally just get PCB's made from those useal chinese places.
But i would like to start saving money.
I was wondering what options i have.
Iv seen the laser printer iron on ones.
UV light ones...

I only have InkJet printers in my home, they are nice, but i dont know if they are up to the task.

Id really like to make some sort of setup to where i can just make a design in Eagle, print it at home and get along making it.
Id really like to stay away from as many chemicals as possible.

Also how easy is it to do double sided PCB's?? Becasue i think i need to do some re-designing in Eagle.

Click to expand...

Hi Markland,

There are hundreds of post on these forums requesting the same infromation as you. Do a search and you will find plenty of info to keep you going.

Just as a starter there are various way you can go about making your own pcb. Depending on the quality your after there are some real cheap ways. I myself use the expose / develop / etch routine. This kind is expensive to setup initially (light box / tank / chemicals etc) but produces outstanding quality.

Hope it helps

Andy

And it's relatively easy to make double-sided boards. Notice I said relatively easy.
JB

Alright ill look around a little more, i did a search for "homemade pcb" and only got 3 results.
Are there specific names for these different type's of manufacuring?

Try different keywords... 'Etching', 'PCB', 'Boards'...

well iv looked through alot of threads and done some googling. It seems to me that the best way is the photoresistant way, but they say you need a darkroom and the cost of chemicals is only worth it if you make alot of boards.

In my situation im only going to be making simple boards every couple weeks. There is maby 1-3 IC's and some resistors, capacitors, pin headers. Nothing special. What kind of quality do i need to make something like this work right?

markland556 said:

well iv looked through alot of threads and done some googling. It seems to me that the best way is the photoresistant way, but they say you need a darkroom and the cost of chemicals is only worth it if you make alot of boards.

In my situation im only going to be making simple boards every couple weeks. There is maby 1-3 IC's and some resistors, capacitors, pin headers. Nothing special. What kind of quality do i need to make something like this work right?

Click to expand...

For that u can use a PnP foil or even pages from certain magasines. U'l find info about that on diferent threads. For realy simple PCB's u can use a permanent marker

markland556 said:

Well i usally just get PCB's made from those useal chinese places.
But i would like to start saving money.
I was wondering what options i have.
Iv seen the laser printer iron on ones.
UV light ones...

I only have InkJet printers in my home, they are nice, but i dont know if they are up to the task.

Click to expand...

I have in a pinch printed on the inkjet and took my photo paper to a printing shop and had them make copies and used that and it worked fine.

I would buy a laser printer. They're not that much. I keep one just for boards. I use Eagle as well. I have not had to do double sided board yet.

I do the boards in Eagle with two layers on, so I see where I have problems (red and blue, if see purple I fix it). I rip-up and fix it or worse case put in a 0 ohm resistor to jumper over a trace. My Grandfather tought me all this, he does PCB layout. And sometime I am lucky enough to just mail him the schematic (but he likes ORCAD better than Eagle).

I have only ferric chloride around. Nothing more. It is a simple and fast process outside of the layout on Eagle and the drilling of the holes (for me).

markland556 said:

... but they say you need a darkroom ...

Click to expand...

You don't need a darkroom. I don't even use "safelights". When I first started making photo PCB's (15+ years ago), I thought all that stuff was necessary, too. I then realized that the photoresist is nowhere near as sensitive as photo film. If it is, then why does it take so long to expose with UV lamps 4 inches from the board? As an experiment, I tried it without all that darkroom stuff (in the lab under normal fluorescent lighting) and got excellent results. Haven't worried about it since. The chemicals are not that expensive either, all you really need is developer and etchant. I used to spray my own boards with sensitizer, but that is expensive. (At the time, I didn't care, my company bought the supplies.) Now, I just buy my board stock pre-sensitized.

Tarsil said:

For realy simple PCB's u can use a permanent marker

Click to expand...

Before I used the photo method, I mounted a fine point permanent marker in a flatbed pen plotter. I would draw the traces right onto bare copper, then into the etchant. Worked really well, but the size of the pen tip limits the minimum trace width and isolation.
JB

It's really a matter of preference, as you might have noticed in the threads. The toner transfer is pretty good, and probably simpler and cheaper to get into. Either, I think the quality either way has some to do with the equipment you start out with.

I've never photo-etched, mostly because of the mixing and storage of chemicals, exposure times and such. I'm kind of sloppy that way, and wouldn't expect good, consistant results.

Toner-transfer doesn't require much precision, so its better suited to me. I got a new HP 1020 laserjet for $129 (free shipping), but wanted a fast printer for other stuff anyway. I got a 4" laminator surplus for $25. Pint of etchent goes for around $5. You'll want a drill press for the holes. I've got an old universal jobber for 3/8 drills, don't know the cost mine was free with the house I bought... Steel drill bits dull very quick, just a few boards, and carbide bits are fragile (definately need the drill press). So, expect to spend about $200 to start, or eventually. Lot of ways around spending money, but it's well worth spending the money. You can use a public access photocopy machine instead of a laser printer, but will limit the print quality and maybe paper selection. I use the special toner transfer paper ($1-1.5 per sheet), but you get clean transfers, quick release, little rework (if any).
You can use a clothes iron, kitchen stove, or other heat sources instead of a laminator. But you need to learn by trial and error (apparently many) about heat, pressure, and duration. Seldom do boards over 4 inches, so the laminator is great for most of my projects, usually do two passes. In a race, I think I could be ready to etch before the Iron/Photo paper guys get they're irons hot enough...

I've gone from printing a design to trying to figure out what I screwed up in under 2 hours, and I'm usually not focused on one task at time...

You don't really need a darkroom, but you do need to understand light intensity.
For example, a 100W bulb on the ceiling won't expose anything in a reasonable period of time. A 60W desk lamp 12" away might, it's hard to say. It is far far stronger!

Sunlight, on the other hand, is capable of exposing it, even if it's not a direct sunbeam. The eye adjusts and the room may seem about as bright as being lit by a 100W bulb at night, but it may actually be 100 times more light.

You're forgetting that sun light also contains a heck of a lot more UVA than an incansesant which hardly produces any and that cloud doesn't always affect the UV index.

You can buy fairly cheap black light bulbs that are a drop-in replacement for a normal 60W bulb. One of these in a normal desk lamp will do the job perfectly and use the compact fluorescent variety not the crappy short-lived low-output incandesent type.

I don't bother with any fancy Press'n Peel or photo paper, plain and ordinary magazine paper works well for me. I've heard some stories about it not working with some printers , although I imagine that can be fixed by gluing it to normal A4 paper.

For me the method I choose depends on the quality of board I'm doing. For boards containling only through-hole componants I just the magazine paper method but for higher quality boards with lots of SMT componants I use the photo etch board.

well i dont plan on doing any SMT components any time soon.. So im still undecided on what i should do. I kinda like the whole press an peel stuff, seems easy enough.
I was looking at this thing, i order from these guys alot.
https://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/4231

"I don't bother with any fancy Press'n Peel or photo paper, plain and ordinary magazine paper works well for me."

Hero, you throw this in everytime this topic comes up, but you never specify which grade magazine paper you use. There are atleast three typical grades, some magazines use them all in a single issue. Guess we can rule out the high gloss photo pages for obvious reason (stuck together most likely ), that leaves the regular gloss and the recycled news-print pages.

HarveyH42 said:

"I don't bother with any fancy Press'n Peel or photo paper, plain and ordinary magazine paper works well for me."

Click to expand...

Cheap picture paper works well.. I have only done on magazine paper one. Was bad, cheap thin paper, the laser crunched it up.

Hero, you throw this in everytime this topic comes up, but you never specify which grade magazine paper you use. There are atleast three typical grades, some magazines use them all in a single issue. Guess we can rule out the high gloss photo pages for obvious reason (stuck together most likely ), that leaves the regular gloss and the recycled news-print pages.

Click to expand...

I think you're wrong, I will not go back and search the threads. BUT, I think it was an adult magazine mentioned way back in a thread.

Maybe not.. I still want to try the magazine paper. It makes since. But the lexmark photo paper and other papers at 100 sheets for $12.99.. They work, you just have to learm to let them soak long enough before you peel the paper off.

I've used a lot of different papers for toner transfer. just about any glossy magazine paper will work. I've gotten good results with Time Magazine (thin), Cosmopolitan (heavier), A Lands End catalog and a few others I don't recall. I have also gotten very good results with ink jet paper (in a laser) and ok results with photo paper. I've also gotten decent result with water soluable PVA stock (Disolvy - for sewing patterns). The key issue is the paper must be coated to prevent the toner from soaking into the fibers of the paper. anything that is coated will work.

Personally, I use a photographic process, I find that it yields repeatable work, especially for higher resolution/greater density or smt/mixed boards.
I used to coat my own boards on a large scale, then live off the stock for 6 months at a time, but now it's as cheap to just buy in pre-sensitised stock whenever I need it.
I know a lot of folks have hit and miss results with it though, but I find that generally it is because they often unknowingly alter their process each time.

Build yourself a proper exposure frame with a decent lamp that you can semi-permanently fix the height of and build in an accurate timer to control the lamp. Run a test strip for each new batch of board stock so you know exactly what the correct exposure time should be, what height the lamp should be to properly expose the whole board without shadow and what strength of chemicals are required. The major advantage of using a frame, is that you can get registration perfect if you are making double sided boards, something the Toner/contact method is very tricky to do with.

For the developing chemicals, mostly any caustic soda solution will do, you can get it from some hardware places or pharmacies, often it is sold as drain cleaner. Board stockists can give you non caustic stuff as well, but it's a little more costly. Use measuring spatulas and marked jugs for your make up water so you can repeat the solution strength with some degree of accuracy, remember you are aiming for consistent repeatable results. All you then need do each time you make a board is set your exposure timer, lamp height and chemical strength accordingly. I have heard all sorts of stuff like use distilled water etc over the years, but unless you are planning on keeping the chemicals in made up form for months at a time, it's better to just make up what you need. I usually use Malted Vinegar to neutralise the spent developer, and as a fixer for the developed board prior to etching. I also have a tray that I put cool clean water in to store the board between processes, I find that by keeping the board away from the air as much as possible there's much less chance of oxide build up causing dead spots in the etching process, and is especially required if I go on to tin plate the board, as is often the case with my boards.

Use cool water when developing the board, keep it at or below 15 degrees and the development process will be slow enough that you can watch things and correct them if the board is over exposed, or your development solution is too strong. After a bit of experience, you'll instinctively know how warm the solution needs to be just by holding your development tray in your hands. Usually a quick wash of the partially developed board in cold water is enough to stop the resist washing away before your eyes. Just remember that the warmer and stronger the solution is, the faster the development, to the point where it will wash your entire artwork away. Direct sunlight is to be avoided when handling the exposed board, but a dull overcast day generally allows me enough time to handle it during processing, on bright days, I usually just close the blinds over a bit. I used to use an ordinary yellow coloured incandescent lamp as a safe light because the films and board stock used to be really sensitive to daylight, but nowadays, the stuff can pretty much be handled in daylight for short periods without negative effects.

If you make sure your process is fairly stable and repeatable each time, you should have fantastic quality boards each time, but alas that's not always the case. Small variations in board stock mid batch etc can affect the development stage, but if you go slow with it, you can always stop the development by rinsing the board in cold water and add a smidge more caustic to your make up or warm it up a little to help an under exposed board clear, or dilute your already too strong solution to help an over exposed board.

I have also tried the Toner/contact method using various papers and had moderately good results with it, but I found that it's is strewn with the same pitfalls the photo process has, i.e lack of experience and confidence and lends itself to the self same process altering characteristics the photo process has for loads of folks, unfortunately it's the downside of being human, only with a differrent set of process steps.
Also the board processing is sloppy using an iron because of varying contact pressure, even heating, removal of air bubbles, oxides etc etc, there is not really any way I can see that you can manually make that both accurate and repeatable, there will always be differences. It's a matter of whether you can control those sufficiently to produce repeatable results. I personally couldn't and scrapped as many boards as I was happy with.

Obviously one off boards are an exception here, as either process usually yields a workable board eventually. The one thing that the Toner/contact method has to it's advantage, is that bare copper clad board stock is used, so it''s a little cheaper and you get to see where your artwork let you down before ruining the board in etchant, you can always scrub it and try again etc till you get it right. With the photographic process you would do the same thing, but to the contact artwork, and not the board, giving rise to running a dozen perfect boards from the same artwork. The photo process also has the advantage that unless you are coating your own board stock, you don't need to clean it of oxides etc before use, it is a pretty much repeatable process.

For one off boards, either method will give you a result if your careful, for high density or smt boards, or boards where you need to run a couple of dozen off, the photo process will lend itself better in my opinion. It's all an art form and takes a little time to master. Either way you produce your boards, if you are like me, you will stand back and think it's a thing of beauty every time onee turns out the way you want.

Look at it this way, it's like cutting glass, if you have no experience and little confidence whilst doing it, you'll end up with a gazillion broken bits, but show a little confidence and use a sharp cutter each time, and you'll have perfectly cut glass.

Ok that was a rant, I admit it, and I'm somewhat biased here too.
I have used the photographic process for 20+ years, and really only used the Toner/contact method for 20 mins, well, ok, I used it for about a week, but obviously not long enough to build that glass cutting confidence that others have mastered.

While I use toner transfer, I'm not a die-hard about it. It's just a tool and all tools have their strengths and weaknesses. Just as the photo process does. One thing that I totally agree with - knowing how to use the tool is critical. It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools.

It took me a few boards to get TT down but now I get maybe one failure in 10 - usually because I rushed the cleaning process.

On the photo exposure boxes - get a junked scanner, it's perfect as an exposure box.

Laser toner transfer has worked quite well for me. Though for me.. getting perfect results reliably took a little practice and I didn't get the wrinkles ironed out until I had made 5 or 6 PCB's. Here's some of my own guidelines.

- fill in as much copper as you can, toner sticks better if it's next to more toner.
- don't touch the paper especially the tracks
- rub copper with cleaning block, brush away debris with a 2" paintbrush, then paper towel with acetone.
- clean it a bit more than you think is neceasary
- especially round the edges
- tape the paper to the copper board so it can't move
- I make single sided boards and seem to always get better results when I heat the board from the non copper side.
- a good flat surface really helps
- use kitchen paper towels, two either side evens out the pressure from the iron.
- after ironing and weigh it down with an old lead acid battery until it goes cold.
- give the water time to do its job
- peeling works well only sometimes
- a soft toothbrush doesn't damage toner if it's stuck well.

HarveyH42 said:

Hero, you throw this in everytime this topic comes up, but you never specify which grade magazine paper you use. There are atleast three typical grades, some magazines use them all in a single issue. Guess we can rule out the high gloss photo pages for obvious reason (stuck together most likely ), that leaves the regular gloss and the recycled news-print pages.

Click to expand...

Thick high-gloss paper isn't much good in my oppinion because the ink sticks to the gloss but the gloss doesn't separate well from the paper when it's washed. Plain non-glossy paper is useless too because the ink soaks into the paper. I use the intermediate thickness medium-gloss paper (used for most pages in most magazines) because the ink sticks to the gloss which separates easilly from the paper when washed.

I'm thinking about experimenting with using plain paper covered with a dry thin layer of water soluble paper glue. My theory is that the ink will stick to the glue which will wash off when soaked in water.

One thing I've found is that after ironing you need to leave the board to cool for awhile. Also it needs to be left to soak for a reasonable lenghth of time otherwise the paper will remove the ink when it's peelled off.