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wy use 8051 or wy use PIC

Discussion in '8051/8951' started by TKS, May 12, 2004.

  1. TKS

    TKS New Member

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    can anyone tell me wy using a 8051 cpu

    and when to use a pic...

    i'm searching for a complete chit so i can make all the things i want and not spending all to pic or to 8051

    TKS
     
  2. Nigel Goodwin

    Nigel Goodwin Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    It's mostly personal experience - use which ever one you are familiar with. PIC processors are one of the most popular micro-controllers, easy to use and reasonably priced, with loads of software you can download.

    But 8051's are popular as well - as I said, it's mostly a personal decision.

    There was a thread a number of months back asking what micro's people used - from what I can remember the PIC won easily.
     
  3. TKS

    TKS New Member

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    yeah ok...

    I know that but, that could be because here only comes people who have pics...

    Can you tell me the difference looking @ the chip..

    is a 8051 a cpu or a microcontroller whit ports..??

    works it @ 20Mhz or less..???

    does it has Ram internal..??

    who is faster..??? whit instruction soow if it compansates is MHZ>.etc..

    TKS
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. bsodmike

    bsodmike New Member

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    From what I can see, the 8051 is an Atmel µC known as an AVR. This is something that I will be looking @ in the future as I hear that these run faster than most PICs....still I doubt I'll be changing from PICs for a very long time, I have lot to learn and I want to learn it all ;)

    For the datasheet check out www.atmel.com

    You get PIC µCs that run @ 20Mhz (16f84a/20P) and even 40Mhz (the 40pin moster).....I've bracketed a few examples. The AVR has onboard ram like PICs do. Some have hardware USB capabilities, PWM and other stuff.....
     
  6. falleafd

    falleafd New Member

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    No,

    I used 89C51 for a long time before I choose PIC. the fact that PIC is very very difficult to buy in Vietnam, and I have no thing to start with PIC. I don't have teacher, I don't have books...

    However, when I use PIC, I found it very strong.

    PIC is not a single uC, PIC is a family of which instructions are similar, that is, you can use most types of PIC with great ease if you knew one of them.

    For the package, I only discuss bout PDIP, because it's popular for designers. PIC has from 8 pins to 80 pin PDIP chip. And you can use them for different applications.

    For 89C51, it has 40 pin with no special functions such as: A2D, Capture, PWM, communications... They only have RXTX communication. 89C51 usually run at 12MHz, and an instruction cycle is 1us. However, PIC can get 10MHz instruction with 40MHz crystal.

    For midrange PIC, it's 20MHz crystal (5MHz ic)

    Rom and Ram is not the problem.

    you shouldn't compare 2 uC by comparing which is faster.

    you should compare about:

    1) How many people use it, that is, you can have their help

    2) how long is it used, that is, how many specific applications are built, and you can take examples from

    3) how easily you can learn it? PIC has 35 instruction and 89C51 has hundreds of instructions

    4) how easily you can get help from provider? You can have free samples with ease

    5) how easily you can program and test your program? Do 89C51 has ICD? and ICSP?

    6) Do you have free debugger as MPASM?
     
  7. bsodmike

    bsodmike New Member

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    falleafd - thanks for that great post, very true. It is impossible to get PICs here unless I order them via my Farnell Agent, actually check www.farnell.com < they have an agent in every country you might have some luck, but the agents tend to keep quite a 'cut'.

    I would say the PICs simple rule cause of the miniscule language, popularity, and easy to build programmers (that can program any pic!) - tbh I doubt there is anything you can do on an AVR that you can't do on a PIC!

    (the solution is possible but the way to get from start to end will of course differ and depending on the model of µC somethings maybe tougher on the AVR or vice versa)
     
  8. StupidDum

    StupidDum New Member

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    Generally, i think PIC is better. However, 8051 has some advantages.
    8051 support external RAM,ROM. This makes it suitable for small, medium size project. PIC generally doesnt support external memory.
    Older 8051 is slower than PIC, its instruction cycle is 12 machine cycle, which is slower, compared to 4 machine cycles for PIC. However, newer 8051 has same speed as PIC, for example, the DS87C530 that i am using.

    Another feature i like about the 8051 is, the pins in DIP package are well organized! Allpins in each port are located in adjacent, this makes PCB routing easier for component that connects to all 8 pins in 1 port, for example, data pins of LCD. This is not the case in PIC. For example, in PIC16F877, pin D0-D3 is at one side, while D4-D7 is at another side. This is troublesome while building circuit on bread board or solder board.
     
  9. TKS

    TKS New Member

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    mhhh..

    soow when u use a 8051 it's more a cpu..

    and you need other chips to do voltage reading..

    and communications..

    and all the others..

    now i untherstand better

    Conclusion a 8051 is part of a Computer..
    and his best its that it is be able to connect to everything...

    a Pic is already a computer and limited to be contected to other small computers..

    wrong or right..??

    Walter
     
  10. Exo

    Exo Active Member

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    There are many things you can do with an avr that a pic can't do. If it comes down to speed the bigger AVR's win. They run 1:1, so a avr running at 16Mhz is 60% faster then the fastest PIC18. The avr also has a larger instruction set, wich allows you to do more in less instructions (also faster)...

    I stick to pics though. Cause i know 'em. If i would start AVR's i would have to begin all over again.
     
  11. bmcculla

    bmcculla New Member

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    TKS:

    Not quite right: You can buy 8051s that are a whole computer (CPU, program and code memory, peripherals) just like a PIC.

    The advantage to the 8051 is selection. PIC is made by one company. 8051s are made by almost every company that makes microcontrollers. You can buy an 8051 in a million different varieties. You can buy 8051s that are just the CPU but you can also buy 8051s that contain eveything that a PIC does.

    Some neat 8051's to take a look at:
    Analog Devices has an 8051 with a 24 bit A to D.
    Silicon Labs has a 100MHz 8051.
    ST has an 8051 with 64KB of ram.
    Philips has some 8 pin 8051s.
    Maxim has an 8051 with built in Ethernet.

    Microchip(PIC) is the biggest single supplier of 8 bit microcontrollers but the 8051 accounts for about 80% of the microcontrollers used in products.

    Brent
     
  12. TKS

    TKS New Member

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    ???and wy are we all working

    whit pics..??

    because off the smaller instruction set...??

    mhh...


    Well making with 100Mhz a ide controller will work fine doesn't it..??

    TKS
     
  13. StupidDum

    StupidDum New Member

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    PIC is definitely more user-friendly to beginner.
    PIC contains almost everything, it has ADC, comparator, PWM, capture-compare. Its high sourcing capability allow LED to be connected directly to the pins, without needing transistors.
    There are little that we need to worry about the I/O circuitry, therefore, beginners could concentrate on coding.
     
  14. falleafd

    falleafd New Member

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    bsodmike,

    Once I saw you post a programmer on this forum? May you support the schemes for beginners? Because you board is very small, and I see it easy to build.
     

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