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Why are poorly supported pcb layout packages so popular?

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One factor that differentiates some of these design packages is when they were first produced. I started using Protel (now Altium) about 20 years ago. Then it was a DOS program called Autotrax. At that time there was no Youtube. Even Google wasn't around.

To use a program you read the printed manual. And referred back to it when you had questions. But mostly you experimented with the software to figure it out. As such, ease of use and an intuitive user interface was important. And it was. I was using it to do a 4 layer through hole board in only a couple of days. And doing a SMT 4 layer board with components on both sides a few months later. And all without online forums, search engines or how to videos.

I sometimes wonder if the ability to search the internet to find any little bit of information has spoiled us to the point we are less likely to discover things for ourselves. Now don't get me wrong. I appreciate the ability to find information and help online. But if we become totally dependent on it, we'll never be able learn something that someone else hasn't posted online somewhere.
 
When I started off making PCBs, there were no computers / cad packages available and I used etch resist pens, transfers and tape.

Ahhh those were the days ....
 
I sometimes wonder if the ability to search the internet to find any little bit of information has spoiled us to the point we are less likely to discover things for ourselves

I think if you're being payed to sit at a desk and teach yourself a pcb layout package (with just the manual and own experimentation) then that's wonderful. However, if, as I find, you're at a company who expect you to crack on with the pcb design from day one, and spend no more than a day getting stuck, then you do need more than the manual (or at least I do).
As I described, at one company I was designing an smps, and was still getting stuck with cadstar on day 5 of the job.......they sacked me. I had the design and schem done, but was getting stuck laying it out.

You speak of 20 years ago......those are good times, the uk electronics industry is a baron wasteland now compared to what it was then....nowadays, you can either do the job almost immediately, or you're out the door sacked.

This is why I find eagle, with all its support, very useful.

We all know where the uk electronics industry has gone.....uk 'entreprneurs' sold it to china..........companies that were once in Glasgow are now in Guangdong province. The UK 'entrepreneurs' first used the slaves of china to work at a loss, to completely outprice uk companies to price them out of the market, and now that uk companies are gone, these same entrepreneurs are upping the price of Chinese goods, though of course, the bigger money doesn't go to the slaves of Guangdong.

Anyway, speaking of china, virtually every Chinese pcb layout /schematic I've ever seen has been in eagle......no idea why.
 
Well known for their wastelands, those Barons...

I guess Chinese designers use Eagle because it's cheap. They are probably using the free version.
 
ok, going back to dxf import, I am pretty sure that can be done with eagle.

If you still interested in doing that, there are ULPs available. Go to the main download site (USA = ) and search on dxf import. There were two in English that looked interesting:

dxfimport.2.zip
import_dxf_polygons.zip

Haven't tried either, as I usually just sketch the geometry, then set the dimensions just as one does in many other CAD programs.

John
 
Great, that's dxf import cracked, now we need a "track-stopper", a "track-pusher" and ODB++ output to make it almost perfect for non-mainframe-computer type pcbs.

Having said that, even without those things, the massive support structure still makes eagle the best.
 
What are a track stopper, track pusher, and ODB++ output. I suspect Eagle may have the first two already built in. Are you using v.6.5?

John
 
trackstopper auto stops the track when routing so it doesn't impinge on different net copper by closer than the set clearance distance.

track pusher .....say if theres four parallel tracks, spaced apart quite far, and you want to push them up quite close so that they are together , but still at least the clearance distance apart.

ODB++ , is the component coordinates needed for programming pick and place machines quickly and easily.

I use v6.5 yesy
 
Here's a YouTube on converting Gerber to ODP++: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z93nkbfIZ8 I couldn't find anything in Eagle that did it directly.

As for routing, Eagle does have automatic stops built in, like to the center of pads. I will see if track move command can be set to avoid violating a DRC.

I have yet to send a board out for manufacture, so I am not well versed in that aspect. The closest I have gotten to that was designing a board and devices for others who sent them out.

John

Edit: I could not find a control that would prevent one from moving a track (or any object) so its final position did not cause a DRC failure. That is, Eagle will allow you to overlay conductors on top of one another (with some exceptions, e.g., pads and vias). In a complex board design, you might consider setting the alternate grid to a size, based on the track width (i.e., (grid - track width ) >= minimal track separation) , that would prevent violating DRC. Of course, you could still overlay the tracks, but that error should be obvious. I just use my eyesight and DRC.
 
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thanks, i just asked for quote for FAB3000 software....

quote received....its £600............oh dear
 
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I don’t agree with flyback , eagle is capable to handle very complex boards and I personally feel it good for the personal and simple projects not for the commercial use even though it has very good libraries but most of the designers prefer to build their own libraries so it doesn’t make any difference.

**broken link removed**
 
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Thanks, can you say why you think Eagle is not suitable for commercial use?
Eagle is the most common PCB package used in industrial Germany, where non-computer-motherboard type PCB's are being layed out.
Are you saying that one cannot build up one's own libraries in Eagle (because one can make libraries in Eagle)

You say that Eagle can handle "very complex boards", but then you go on to say that Eagle is only for 'simple' projects...is this not a slight contradiction?

But if anyone wants to slate Eagle, then join the (very long) queue!! That queue is mainly consisted of PCB layout consultancies who don't like a PCB layout package being available which there customers can themselves use to layout there own PCB's instead of getting their consultancy to do it for them, (all for a big fee, no doubt).
 
Eagle is not bad for hobby stuff and simple boards, but it would be a major pain in the ass to do something like this board in it. Last time I chceked you couldnt easily move traces and vias and finetune delays, which is a big issue on crowded boards. This board is four layers with single sided load and no BGAs, made using orcad so the routing is not as complicated as it could be. If I my boss wanted me to do this in eagle I would rather give my resignation and go find a company that uses something more professional.
 

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Nice board.

I am very impressed. You do this for a living kubeek?

Regards,
tvtech
 
Thanks tvtech. Yes, currently I work for a company which makes railway components and industrial automation, this board you see is a 6x1Gbit ethernet switch with M12 connectors, did both schematic and board layout for this one.
I´ve been working there for just two years, but gained a great deal of experience from my colleagues, its a really great place to be.
 
Can anyone work out how to order the $160 Hobbyist version of Eagle? They say you can buy it but when you try, you can't!!

Mike.
 
Mike, I have had the hobbyist/educational license for many years and have renewed it when needed without any problems. There is a form to fill out that is on the cadsoftusa site. As I recall when I first got the license, a telephone call was also needed to the US service center in Florida. Apparently in Australia, Cadsoft is handled by Element14 in Sydney. Have you tried giving it a call (Phone: +61 2 9644 7722, Fax: +61 2 9645 1381)?

If you don't have luck with Element14, a phone call or email to the US center might help.

John
 
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