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Transistor Ignition Modules

Discussion in 'Electronic Projects Design/Ideas/Reviews' started by SmokedCircuit64, May 18, 2011.

  1. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Both white and orange go to +12. It looks like you built the board just like the picture except for those 2 wires.
    It is probaly ok.
     
  2. SmokedCircuit64

    SmokedCircuit64 New Member

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    It Has A Pulse Just NO Heart

    Ron,

    I checked out all the connecting wiring on the back of the board and it is all good. I thought I might have to change out the connection piece I used to connect the sensor wires to the circuit board because I wasn't getting a reading where I "THOUGHT" I should.. Then my son pointed out that we didn't connect anything thing to that plug location, can you say :rolleyes: .. lol

    I also fond that one of the positions where the blue wire connects wasn't working right so I had my son use a tinny screwdriver on it to straighten it out. We stuck all the wires into the "CORRECT" locations "THIS TIME" and then attached the power supply to the circuit board leads. Still nothing.

    Come to find out that the sensor was too close to the reflective tape. It took a few tries because it kept reading off the area I blacked out. I found that if I kept it off the tape about 1/8" that it read correctly off the reflective tape.

    So now she fires every time the tape passes the sensor! :D

    Now I have to build a coil. I tried to make one from some motor wire I pulled off the motor that use to run the compressor but it was weaker then the Chinese coil I had.

    Well she has a pulse just no heart yet!

    I think if I make a PCB once we get it working I can shrink the size of the board I have now.. I know it will be much easier to put together with out all jumper wires! LOL

    Kevin
     
  3. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Ta Da!

    Cool!:D
    It's always nice when a plan comes together.
    Did you try it with the Chinese coil to see if it comes close to working?
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. SmokedCircuit64

    SmokedCircuit64 New Member

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    No I didn't think to try that.. DUAH! I would just hook the Chinese wires to the coil leads to the board correct?
     
  6. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Yep. I bet trying to set the timing will keep you busy for a while.
     
  7. SmokedCircuit64

    SmokedCircuit64 New Member

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    Actually I think it will be really straight forward. I know I want the coil to fire just as the piston "passes" TDC so that the piston will be on its down ward stroke. I took the timing issue into account when I made the sensor bracket. I cut a long slot in the bracket that gives me adjustment from way before and way after TDC.

    While I was at work today I was brain storming a coil winding machine.. It is another straight forward set up, I just need to locate the pieces like a sewing machine motor and control peddle, and some rubber cone type stoppers that look like the ones you would use in a beaker in a lab. The rest is plywood and rods and nuts and bolts.

    We will try the chinese coil and I'll let you know how that works out.
     
  8. SmokedCircuit64

    SmokedCircuit64 New Member

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    OK, I tried the Chinese coil.. It works better off the circuit than it did connected straight to the power supply. I need MORE POWER! LOL
    Is there a way to up the output for the coil leads from 14V to maybe 20V? With the coil only being on for a few milliseconds I think we can boost the power a little.

    I had to make the reflective tape strip a little longer to make the coil stay on longer. I think I have the timing really close.

    I get a little attraction from just before TDC (Top Dead Center) until just past TDC Then the coil kicks in.. There is one more little trick I want to try and that is placing one of the same Neo magnets on the back of the chinese electromagnet to see if I can boost the power a little. I read someplace that a magnet placed on the back of an electromagnet helps alight the core metal and uses less power and makes for a stronger magnet.
     
  9. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Let me check the voltage on the FET.

    The FET is good to 30 volts but the sensor is only good for 15 volts. But, if you have 2 power supplies we could modify the circuit so the sensor runs on 12 and the FET on 20 or 24 volts
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2011
  10. SmokedCircuit64

    SmokedCircuit64 New Member

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    OK just asking here.. Looking at the circuit, is the center FET leg for the input supply power? Could we brake off the 12V jumper for the coil voltage and feed it with this?
    [​IMG]
    I know that could mean redoing the board!
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2011
  11. SmokedCircuit64

    SmokedCircuit64 New Member

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    Additional Voltage Booster Circuit

    I also found this but I'm not sure if it can be stepped up from the input current of 1.5 amps.
    [​IMG]

    The schematic
    [​IMG]
     
  12. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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  13. SmokedCircuit64

    SmokedCircuit64 New Member

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    Sorry I have been out of the loop.. Kids, summer vacation, wife in school.. Just a little busy!

    So about our lack of power.. This weekend I thought I might try using a regular ignition coil (OIC). One of the older type like the one I pulled from my Monte Carlo that I know works..
    My thought was we need some more "juice" so why not use a standard OIC which has some "juice" for sure.. I proceeded to connect it to the circuit board we have put together, connecting it to the terminals on the board for the coil.

    This is where I am going to have to do some tinkering..
    Firstly.. Unlike a CAP, I believe I have to “ground” the body of the OIC or the “-“ terminal of the OIC to the chassis of our project, this is going to require me making a bracket..

    Secondly.. The connections should be straight forward.. 12V out of the circuit board to the “+” terminal on the OIC and “-“ from the circuit board for the coil to the “-“ terminal on the OIC..

    Thirdly.. OIC output to one side of the electromagnet coil (EMC).. After that I’m stumped! Does the other side of the EMC go to the “-“ side of the OIC or would that go to the same ground source as the OIC?

    I’m thinking the one side of the EMC has to go to ground.. I say this because in a car, things run on a “grounded system” meaning the chassis is grounded to the body and the motor (ICE) is grounded to the chassis and spark plugs are grounded to the heads. When the OIC fires the resulting spark we see is at the gap between the spark plug electrode and the spark plug housing. I’m sure I misunderstanding something here but I thought the power supplied to the coil had to “pass through” the EMC coil in order to generate its power. Or maybe we need to throw something in between the negative side of the EMC and the ground that could collect some of that voltage, a CAP maybe.. I really don’t know here!!

    Yes I’m using another coil I threw together and NOT the Chinese coil which is the only one that “semi-works” with the circuit board alone, it just isn’t strong enough to give us the results we want.

    Kevin
     
  14. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    The ignition coil won't work. It only outs out a very high voltage pulse for a very short period of time when the circuit opens (like points). The best bet if you are close to working is the higher voltage supply.
     
  15. SmokedCircuit64

    SmokedCircuit64 New Member

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    Ok, sticking with or building off the circuit we have working. How do I incorporate a 24 volt power source or will we replace the 12 volt power source and just run the circuit off 24 volts? My main reason for not jumping on this next step is I'm not sure which direction I need to go. Do I get a 110VAC to 24 VDC power supply or do I get or build an additional circuit board that accepts 12 VDC and puts out 24 VDC.

    I looked at the link you posted but I'm still unsure how to make it work with what we have so I'm apprehensive on what I need to buy.

    Any assistance would be a huge help. If we can get this to work a little we will know which direction we need to go in.

    Thx,
    Kevin
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
  16. SmokedCircuit64

    SmokedCircuit64 New Member

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    What is the frequency of our circuit?
     
  17. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I think I would buy the Cat# PS2421. We will now have 2 power supplies. One for the electronics (12 volt) and one for the coil (24 volt). I'll mark up the pictures a little later. Do you think twice the power will be enough to make it work?
    The circuit is DC.
     
  18. SmokedCircuit64

    SmokedCircuit64 New Member

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    I know that the 12V I'm feeding the Chinese coil from the circuit board we built isn’t strong enough to give us the desired performance we need. The exact limits of that coil remain to be seen and we are about to test just that. I had thought of trying to locate a reasonably priced switchable power source (12, 24, 36V) that way if the increase to 24V didn’t work that we have the additional voltage on hand to try an additional voltage step.

    I will order the 24V power supply you suggested and we will see how it goes from there. As things stand right now I don’t see any of this as money lost as I can use all the items we have on other projects. Once I saw the board you suggested it gave me an idea for a modular switchable power source where I use your suggested Cat# PS2421 as a base for the 24V side of things then order a 12V and 36V board with the same specifications and configure that in a case used for testing of follow on projects.

    I feel confident that if we can get the Chinese coil to perform just a fraction more, that we will not be just throwing darts at an idea and hoping for the correct response. I want to chase this down till I run into a total Brick Wall then adjust from there! Which I have an idea for that as well, can you say Coil Gun?! LOL
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
  19. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Stop the mail!!:D
    That's a great idea. You could make it like a solenoid. This would give a much longer stroke.. Your handy so attaching a stell rod to the piston that would run up and down in the coil would be another project. Would have to be careful that there are enough turns that the current is not to high (even with 12 volts).
     
  20. SmokedCircuit64

    SmokedCircuit64 New Member

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    In my search for a coil/pulse coil and some insight on how it may need to be wound or how I would configure the coil. I ran into information about coil guns.

    I see your trend of thought, but I was thinking of skipping the rod and coil and more like doing the coil around the cylinder wall. Then the piston (in our case is a disk affixed to the top of the piston rod) would be pulsed to move within the cylinder. An opposing cylinder as in the case of a two cylinder motor would aid in forcing the first piston back up the cylinder as the second cylinder moves through its cycle. Then the whole cycle would restart with the firing of the first cylinders coil. But it could work on a single cylinder as well!

    For now I would really like to get this first project operational, even only if it is just a little bit.. Then try a new coil or two to see if we can increase that performance. I feel a lot is being learned from this little project that will carry onto follow on projects. We are figuring out many different variables here in an effort to make this little thing just move. As in the case of timing the coil firing, required voltage to power the coil and force an object to move within a space, and I’m sure there are a few other things I have picked up that I’m not mentioning.

    I’m really thinking here! Maybe we abandon the first project ideas and work on the pulse gun coil configuration.. I will chase that some when I get home.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  21. easy.rahil

    easy.rahil Member

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    even i m searching and trying to build Transistor Ignition for my motorcycle see thread with many module schematic. i made one also an it works with load and blow up when no load. while testing current strength. dont know why. i used simplest with TIP31C, you can see page three.
    here is the thread, http://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/transistor-ignition-shematic.120379/
    Hope we can get any result.
     

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