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Toner Transfer Papers

Discussion in 'Circuit Simulation & PCB Design' started by mvs sarma, Nov 12, 2010.

  1. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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  2. mvs sarma

    mvs sarma Well-Known Member

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    There are no strange chemicals. After transferring the artwork, you just need topeel out the yellow sheet while it is semi hot (say 1 minute after toner transfer. )
    you can etch a pcb as you had been doing.
     
  3. Mosaic

    Mosaic Well-Known Member

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  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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    Hi,
    As I don't possess an iron, but have a toaster, I thought I'd try that.

    I'm only making small PCBs at the moment 30X40. I cut 2x 2mm sheets larger than the PCB drilled 4x holes in each corner. Placed the PCB on the bottom ali sheet, then yellow transfer paper with circuit, then a silicon sheet, then the top ali sheet. bolt it all together, but not too tight so it bends. Put it in the toaster for 1.5 minutes. leave till warm, remove and peel paper.

    For this simplicity test: Ferric chloride in a chemical glass, heat till near hot and agitate the PCB for 20ish minutes.

    Good result!
    C.
     
  6. Mosaic

    Mosaic Well-Known Member

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    pics?
     
  7. throbscottle

    throbscottle Well-Known Member

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    I am in awe of your ingenuity!
     
  8. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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    Here's a PIC.

    Sandwich TOP PLATE-SILICON-TONER PAPER-PCB-BOTTOM PLATE. Bolt lightly so as not to buckle Ali plates.

    My old 60s toaster has good elements! 1 Minute over 100DEG C 2Minutes 200DEG C.

    200 DegC will aneal (Soften) the aluminium, so in this case 1Minute 20 Secs. leave till warm and pull/peal apart.

    NOTE: this was a quick test! The aluminium sheet should be thicker for larger PCBs, or another metal used, e,g, brass? (or it will buckle) I will add re-inforcing bracing 'Silver soldered' on the rear of each plate. (Not soldering iron solder, much hotter), then try again.

    C.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  9. Mosaic

    Mosaic Well-Known Member

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    Good effort, but: Once you start doing 6" PCBs etc...that squeeze plate method won't work very well, there'll be high & low pressure spots which smear the toner or don't transfer it.
    After dropping to about 50% success rates with the iron for larger boards I got the Apache AL13P and I have a 95% rate with big boards now. A silver sharpie makes it 100%.

    10 mil traces and 0603 parts are common items for me.
     
  10. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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    Hi, I was editing my post, have another look. C
     
  11. Mosaic

    Mosaic Well-Known Member

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    If you want to use rigid plates, make them with 1/4" Alum angles. Polish the Al angles flat on a sheet of glass with 220 grit sand paper stuck to the glass.
     
  12. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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    Hi M,
    I get your point about the problem with large plates, I suggested using thinner plates with re-inforced webbing, to speed up the heating/cooling time, instead of thicker ones.

    I have yet to find out from my posted test, whether the heat is coming from the side with silicon or not. If it can come from the silicon, then double sided PCBs could be produced.
    C.
     
  13. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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    Hi again M,
    You have reminded me about Engineers blue (Microscope) and hours of scraping :)
    C.
     
  14. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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    Hi,
    I've been thinking about making stiffer plates, but more accessible to the hobbyist.

    My plates are 2mm and are just starting to bend. If plates of perhaps 5 or 6mm and drill honeycomb on the back, stopping just before the drill breaks through. (Or preferably an end-mill: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-Flute-M...utter-Drill-HSS-2-to-12m-111926-/291809266989) This would give the stiffness while also heating and cooling more quickly. As long as the whole sandwich fits in the toaster.
    C.
     
  15. Mosaic

    Mosaic Well-Known Member

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    I think using the toaster as a preheater for the PCB and passing the toner transfer PCB thru a hot paper laminator a couple times would be more reliable.
     
  16. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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    Hi,
    I just tried double sided, with the same sandwich, to prove that the heat can pass through the silicon. It can!
    However there were signs of lack of pressure at the same edge both sides, and scaling up would exaggerate this affect, so I think you maybe correct, that it may not be 100%.
    I'm sure I could develop this method, perhaps with dissimilar metals, which would try to bow in the centre, so kind of sending a pressure wave from external to the centre, but life's too short.

    So, where's the sandwich maker :)

    I'll buy a laminator!
    From what you say they need more than one pass. Is it time, pressure or heat, that's lacking? I presume they have a fixed speed, so perhaps they should have slower travel?
    Note: Pre-heating with a toaster before laminating, would give the leading edge more heat than the cooling rear edge!
    C.
     
  17. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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  18. Mosaic

    Mosaic Well-Known Member

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    Look for my Ebay item 132136993019.
    It is a mod for laminators to do the multipass automatically. Follow the DIY instructions link for the open sourced build if you prefer.

    Someone else also took the mod. as I open sourced it and is producing laminators with built-in capabilities. Ebay Item: 232310781501, no affiliation.
     
  19. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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    Hi M,
    Interesting well done!
    First I would like to know why it needs two passes? I asked this before: Is it lack of heat, time or pressure?
    C.
     
  20. Mosaic

    Mosaic Well-Known Member

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    Copper spreads heat fast, especially double sided 2Oz, thus the localized roller contact is insufficient at full laminator speed to achieve dependable toner transfer temperatures. Thus a multipass approach is optimum giving focused, consistent roller pressure and getting the heat to do the transfer.
     
  21. camerart

    camerart Active Member

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    Hi M,
    Ok, thanks.
    I've never seen inside a laminator, or know exactly how they work, but I presume either the rollers get hot, or there is a heater near the pinch point.
    My logic 'says' either give more heat (Which may be too much for the rollers etc) or slow the feed down. This would give longer to get the heat into the PCB sandwich. I would first try to slow the feed down, with a speed controller.
    My thoughts on the multi path approach, is: To make the point, this is exaggerated! Imagine the board was a meter long, the board would have cooled down a bit , before the second pass.
    I accept that you're having good success with the multipass, so, I'll try that second :)
    C.
     

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