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The Bass Effect

Discussion in 'Electronic Projects Design/Ideas/Reviews' started by learning, Dec 20, 2010.

  1. 4pyros

    4pyros Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Learning; Generally the more parts in the crossover the better. You should start with the simplest crossover and work your way up.
    The simplest crossover is to use a cap in series with the tweeter and nothing on the woofer speaker. Then you have a cap in series with the tweeter and a coil in series with the fullrang speaker. Then you have the crossover shown.

    The only way to get good "bass effect" is to have a separate subwoofer.

    The only way to get good "bass effect" is to have a separate subwoofer.

    Andy
     
  2. 4pyros

    4pyros Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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  3. learning

    learning Member

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    Fantastic reference ! Good job my friend !

    Take care !
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. audioguru

    audioguru Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    You cannot use a 3-way crossover network in a 2-way speaker system.
    The 3-way will have crossover frequencies at about 600Hz and about 6kHz.
    But a 2-way crossover network needs a single crossover frequency at about 3kHz to 4kHz (depending on the spec's of the speakers).

    Your second-order crossover schematic has the speakers connected with the same polarity (the (-) terminals are connected together). Then you have a notch with no sound at the crossover frequency because second-order filters produce a 90 degrees phase shift at the cutoff frequency then the two filters cancel each other at their cutoff frequency (because the total phase-shift is 180 degrees). That is why the article I posted and I said to connect one speaker (usually the tweeter) with its polarity backwards.

    If you use the simple car radio first-order crossover network (only a series capacitor feeding the tweeter and only a series inductor feeding the woofer) then the speakers must both have the same polarity. The simple crossover allows plenty of "woof" in the tweeter to damage it and produce bad sounds and allows plenty of "tweet" in the woofer to produce bad sounds. But it is simple and cheap.
     
  6. learning

    learning Member

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    OK ! I will do it according to your previous advice !

    Take care !
     
  7. RMMM

    RMMM New Member

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    With a name like "audioguru" you figure he would know what he is talking about....

    ...oh yeah. HE DOES!

    Now your catching on. You can save yourself a lot of time, money, and grief by listening to what the experts say.

    Remember, learning and listening go hand in hand. ;)
     
  8. learning

    learning Member

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    My hug to you !
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2010
  9. audioguru

    audioguru Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I recently bought a brand new "sub-woofer" at a thrift store for only $3.00. It was made by RCA for one of their poor quality cheap little stereos. It has a 4" full-range driver in a pretty big ported wooden enclosure (9.5" x 8" x 5.5"). It produces pretty good bass!

    I just measured it. It produces strong bass down to 65Hz. Its port does all the work at 85Hz (its cone barely moves). I can hear its output clearly up to 13kHz (I am an old geezer at 65 years old) and it probably goes higher.
    I use it for my tiny 14" colour TV with a 1W LM390 amplifier I made.

    I got the name "Audioguru" from a salesman at a company I worked for. We sold very expensive boardroom tele-conference systems that sounded muffled. I designed an equalizer that peaked 3.5kHz at +10dB then the sound became crisp and clear. Wherever I demo'd my equalizer it was sold.
    Before I made my equalizers I measured the frequency response of telephone lines and found 3kHz down -12dB round trip then complained to BELL. They said it is normal because their spec for one-way is -7.5dB at 3kHz (pretty bad).
     
  10. 4pyros

    4pyros Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    GOOGLE is your friend!!!
     
  11. 4pyros

    4pyros Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    audioguru; Do you know the typical audio range for telco in the states?

    Andy
     
  12. audioguru

    audioguru Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Canadian and American telcos are the same. If you call your neighbour then 3kHz could be as low as -15dB and still pass (but the sound is extremely muffled).
    The distance from the central office determines the amount of "high frequency" loss. But 3kHz is just a "mid-range frequency" not a high frequency.

    I am amazed that they feed high speed internet through telephone lines today.
     
  13. learning

    learning Member

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    The ultimate bass effect is still illusive to mankind ! Do you think it ?
     
  14. 4pyros

    4pyros Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I was just wondering about the full band width in general, 300Hz-3KHz? and how you could get good quality sound at all. Wait its only speech.

    From Wikipedia

    OK now I know. This may be the best the OP gets out of his speakers, LOL

    Andy
     
  15. RMMM

    RMMM New Member

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    I think you have a lot to hear.

    The bass effect is not elusive at all. Look on youtube for car stereo shows and woofer performance.

    You will see bass effect that BLOWS the windows out of cars. It is done with the PROPER woofer, and ample POWER. ;)

    Thats all it takes.

    A long-throw speaker will move much more air than a standard woofer, mid, or tweeter.

    The cone will move more than an inch on many of these.

    A woofer that is 18 inches across, and moves almost a cubic foot of air with each hit, will give you more bass effect than you can handle.
     
  16. audioguru

    audioguru Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    That is not true.
    Adult male voices go down to 80Hz and sound "tinny" when the cutoff is too high at 300Hz.
    All very important consonant sounds in speech begin at 4kHz and go up to 14kHz. When the consonant sounds are cutoff then many different words sound the same or are not understood. The words "Failing" and "Sailing" sound exactly the same "Ailing" on a telephone.

    Have you ever heard a throat microphone (almost like the news announcers on TV)? They talk in grunts and groans, not words.
     
  17. learning

    learning Member

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    Excellant informations ! If a woofer is 500 inches across, what will be the bass effect of it ! Just share your thinking !
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2010
  18. RMMM

    RMMM New Member

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    If it was properly powered, and in the same room as you, It would likely cause your ear-drums to rupture, your lungs to explode, and your eyes to jump out of your face.
     
  19. blueroomelectronics

    blueroomelectronics Well-Known Member

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    And your pants would fall off.
     
  20. audioguru

    audioguru Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    My 8" woofers sound good at home with my bass boost circuit.
    The 10" sub-woofer in my car sounds very good with its 128W amplifier.

    Outdoor rock concerts sound good with their 12" and 15" sub-woofers.

    Lets see. 500 inches is almost 42 feet or 12.7m which is ridiculous.
     
  21. blueroomelectronics

    blueroomelectronics Well-Known Member

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    You'd need a magnet the size of a Volkswagen, and a pretty hefty amp to drive it. Tesla did some whacky stuff with low frequency sounds.
     

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