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Tank resonance locator

Discussion in 'Electronic Projects Design/Ideas/Reviews' started by Vijit Dubey, Sep 21, 2015.

  1. Vijit Dubey

    Vijit Dubey Member

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    I am still waiting for delivery for the RLC meter.
    For the circuit you mentioned, I would need a high speed comparator. I tried with the normal one (we both knew it wouldn't work). I would get one soon.
     
  2. cowboybob

    cowboybob Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Perhaps a tad late to suggest this, but...

    Have you considered a DGDM (Digital Grid Dip Meter; a convenient, non-contact tank/antenna resonant frequency detecting test device)? See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_dip_oscillator. An example: http://elm-chan.org/works/ddm/report_e.html

    A nominal 200kHz tank frequency is a little more difficult to achieve when designing/building the coupling coil(s), but it is doable.

    There is also the "pulling" effect (resonant frequency shift) the coupling coil has on the target tank circuit, but that can be accounted for with a uC based GDM system.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
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  3. Tony Stewart

    Tony Stewart Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Unfortunately Bob the DGDM is designed for high reactive impedance resonant coils that dip to much lower impedance such that it absorbs energy to dip the grip meter.
    This external tank circuit has a reactance of <1 Ohm at resonance so it not not even close to be matched to the meter impedance and thus no variation in grid current can be seen unless it was digitized in parts per million.
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. cowboybob

    cowboybob Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    You're right, of course. Low Q can result in little or no observable "dip". For sure if using a mechanical meter.

    Perhaps some amplification might enhance the detection of the reduction in current at resonance.
     
  6. BobW

    BobW Active Member

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    A dip meter is actually a very good method.
    Let's not conflate low Q with low resonant impedance. A dip meter coupled to a high Q tank will still show a distinct dip at resonance regardless of resonant impedance. On the other hand, if the Q is extremely low, then resonance will have a very broad peak and the measurement instrument will have to be very loosely coupled to the tank so as not to influence the resonant frequency. But in that case, there's really no specific circuit that would be superior. It would have more to do with how the measurement circuit is coupled to the tank.
     
  7. Tony Stewart

    Tony Stewart Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I was thinking that even if the Q of the DUT was 100 ,it might work if the LC tank reactance was < 1 Ohm but it would peak Q times this for parallel and may absorb enough energy to dip a 100 Ohm dip meter a little bit.

    But I've never had the pleasure to use one.

    Even the Jfet oscillator version would only get about 500 uV with 9mA Idss
    But then you can always amplify that.

    Unlike below where the DUT on left is high impdance.
    upload_2015-10-14_1-58-50.png
     

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    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  8. Vijit Dubey

    Vijit Dubey Member

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    Tony Stewart I was having trouble simulating the following circuit in this datasheet. Link (page 9)
    upload_2015-11-3_7-51-11.png
    This does not seem to work for me somehow: link
     
  9. Tony Stewart

    Tony Stewart Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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  10. Vijit Dubey

    Vijit Dubey Member

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    This looks good in the simulation. Let me try to replicate this on my breadboard.
    Thanks.
     
  11. Vijit Dubey

    Vijit Dubey Member

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    UPDATE.
    It worked great. I checked and found very little noise in the circuit (IGBTs work near resonance). I now am trying to build a circuit monitoring 4 IGBT thermistors triggered by a 555 timer. I would use a CD4017BE to switch between each thermistor every 1.5 second and measure the frequency.
    The question is to keep it isolated. An idea comes to mind to use Opto-couplers while switching using CD4017. However, what if one IGBT blows it might send dV/dt to other IGBT and blow that too since the DC source is same.
    Using isolated DC-DC converters would be too pricey.
    I'll come up with a schematic and get your opinion.
    Thanks.
     
  12. Tony Stewart

    Tony Stewart Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    OK.. Just use low impedance drivers shielded with CM beads. Low ESL and low ESR between pre-drivers and output drivers and load. low inductance wiring. Paired wires reduces crosstalk, shield even more and CM chokes as well rated for frequency of transients.
     
  13. kubeek

    kubeek Well-Known Member

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    What kind of alien technology is that?
     
  14. Vijit Dubey

    Vijit Dubey Member

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    ff900r12ip4 IGBTs have thermistors connected to the cooling plate. I am using 4 such thermistors in a timer circuit to monitor temperatures and display on PLC.
    Here is the datasheet LINK
     
  15. Tony Stewart

    Tony Stewart Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Will system response time protect IGBT's?

    What is spec?
     
  16. Vijit Dubey

    Vijit Dubey Member

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    Specs of what?
     
  17. Vijit Dubey

    Vijit Dubey Member

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  18. Tony Stewart

    Tony Stewart Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Specs for temperature accuracy , thermal resistance of Tjc to estimate junction temp, control system response to load control with dynamic loads (arcs)
     
  19. Vijit Dubey

    Vijit Dubey Member

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    Tony Stewart here are the schematics where we can select upto 24 IGBT thermistors. All you have to do is jump the number of IGBT you want to monitor.
    What do you think?
    Also, If I want to get a board printed and donot have a account of EAGLEcad (autoroute option). What else do you suggest to design one?
    Capture.PNG
     

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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2015
  20. Tony Stewart

    Tony Stewart Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I was wondering if you measured calibration error somehow.
     
  21. Vijit Dubey

    Vijit Dubey Member

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    The thing is that looking at the difference between what simulation tells me and what I found was around 20 degrees but the difference between each temperature was almost similar. So, I am assuming it is due to resistances in the rest of the circuit. I right now used actual resistor(1/4 W) to come up with the green column and I am going to use this as a reference for my thermistor.
    I also read the thermistor reading using a multimeter and it did fell on the same range of he green column.

    Is there any other way that I could do it?
     

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