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project small generator 3

Discussion in 'Alternative Energy' started by sciencetoolbar, Apr 4, 2017.

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  1. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    LG when you have time can you analyze this rotatve magnetic field ?created by the sphere without the coil your opinion is very important for us
    thx science tollbar
     
  2. hexreader

    hexreader Member

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    ROFL (IMHO)

    Why not experiment with identical setups using thick wire VS thin wire? And maybe do some real science, rather than the mindless messing about that you have done so far...

    Sorry to be grumpy, but I do not have the same patience that LG has....
     
  3. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    thx for the opinion we will do that in our next movie we hope to light up a 11 w ( with the coil used in the movies is flashing with low intensity) Hg bulb. no problem Hex you are not.
    thx
    as LG told us already bulb is 11 w this not mean we have a 11w generator.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. tcmtech

    tcmtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Same thought here.

    To properly educate others you have to have a functional and working understanding of the subject and it's details which the OP has demonstrated he has near zero of many times over.
     
  6. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Yes more Amps but less Voltage, Volts and Amps share a relationship. You cant separate the laws of physics. I will draw some schematics to show you the principles I think are at play. Using my little coil I have worked a couple of other things out.

    What your going to have to do though is measure a couple of things at the same time. I am positive the motor near the coil is inducing a current, this is because the coil and motor are inductive. Now if you take an inductor and pulse a current through it the Voltage builds up. Normally it dissipates though, however you have a diode in the circuit (The LED). So it would be worth measuring Both mA and Volts when the light is in circuit.

    What is likely to happen is the inductive is inducing the current, the field collapses but because you have a diode it can only go one way. So the Voltage could well build as well. The magnet I think is a little bit of red herring, yes it does play a part, but I get the same effect using a simple ferrite bead sat in the centre of the coil.

    I need to read some datasheets on the diodes I have, I have some Schottky diodes but I am not sure of the max reverse voltage on them, or I could use a fast signal diode but again I cant remember the specs so will look up. It might be possible at the lowish frequencies we are using that a simple rectifier diode will do. I cant remember the max frequency of them though.

    So the idea is to get the exact same effect you get, but using different components. this should prove/disprove what is going on. Its easter so have family stuff going on, I will do the diagrams when I get a chance, basically they will show you how each of your components are acting in the circuit. You could build the circuits as well.
    But no more half assed measuring!! You need readings taken on both sides and of both Amps and Volts, showing just Volts is pointless. And use another meter! I dont trust meters that show a mV reading when not connected!
     
  7. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I need a bigger coil, I am at school so I buy Chinese ebay wire! There was a time transformers were in everything, great source of wire. But not so much these days and I no longer destroy transformers for the wire! So when the wire gets here I will make a pick up coil, I guess (and it is a kind of guess) if I make sure I have a cap across it and make sure there is 50 Ohms (ish), then I can use the pickup coil to see what frequencies are being produced. Again this is speculation as I am not a RF guy, but I assume with some shielding I could make the pickup directional, this would allow me to look at frequencies from different parts of the circuit. basically we will see what emission are being given off and how strong etc.

    The more I look at this though, the more I start to see things more simplified. This why i am so sure a voltage and resistive load like a normal bulb wont work. Or if it does light up then you need to measure the amount of current on the motor side. If it lights then the current on the motor side should jump right up. that would be pretty conclusive that its inductive coupling for sure.
     
  8. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    My patience has limits.....I am better than I used to be, but when I finally have enough it will be pretty clear :D.
     
  9. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Ahha I been digging, I have never owned one of those bulbs before, so I didnt know what was in them. Your better off buying some plain high powered Leds. The reason is this.

    ledlight.jpg

    I am aware its a different shape, but its Led and its 7W. Yours will be similar inside, what it shows is caps and more sources for induction (the transformer type thing). So more and more I am convinced its a joint effort of inductive coupling and a crude inductor step up. The basic diagram I will do later will show you how the principle works of generating a high voltage, using a inductor,capacitor and diode.

    As the pic clearly shows, your circuit contains all of them and in several places!! Only way you will pin this down is to run some basic tests. I will do the same, but you cant get any meaningful results the way your doing it. Its a shame because actually there is alot of things going on, things that kids would love if taught properly. But I am a bit reluctant unless you are ready to do it properly, you need to measure everything. Even a couple of really cheap Chinese multi meters will do.

    But one promise I can make is, as soon as I get more wire I can prove 100% exactly what is going on. Then its upto you if you want to except the facts or not. As for other opinions.................

    There may be different opinions on exactly what is doing what. But only the OU guys will come up with anything wildly different from what I have told you.

    What make and model light is it, there might be a very slim chance I can get a schematic of the insides, or I might be able to buy one and take it apart.
    In the next couple of days I will give you some tests to run, do them EXACTLY as I describe. They will give you definitive answers to some of the key questions.
     
  10. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    out of the topic .... what you earn with this?
     
  11. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    It looks on topic to me, your skewing results by not conducting tests properly. Your given reason is this is only educational, the problem is to be educational it has to teach something, the way your doing it wont teach a thing, except how not to do science.
     
  12. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    LG - shape it doesn.t matter is clear for all W is W. I know I will lose voltage with a thicker wire coil but when you put load on a turntable owen motor (standard ) - the same coil I used you will find a lot of movies on youtube actualy they are using some tools to action the ax of the motor to produce power (the resistance of the load), not a minidrone motor or a 3v dc motor from a toy....they are using also led bulbs....
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  13. hexreader

    hexreader Member

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    I suppose this might be true if thicker wire means that less turns can be accommodated on the same bobbin.

    I took thicker wire to mean just thicker wire, but same number of turns, which by my understanding would have no significant effect on the current generated (assuming the wire does not overheat for either thickness).

    The OPs statement is unclear, but then I guess I failed to get it clarified, so I am culpable too.
     
  14. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    ......it is the same coil inside the movie posted earlier...if you wish try to eliminate the case of the motor (which is helping with the voltage because it is metal in this case the construction of the original motor, and use just the original magnet and the coil founded inside the motor to see the diference... (high rpms are allowed)...with the same load of course 7w led bulb...
    PS: we are using standard components in our videos not because we don.t know how to make them, because we wish anyone can can repeat our simple"experiment" from the movies ....doctors, enginners, students, electricians, plumers, simple peoples,.....etc, the reason is educational we are not trying to educate, we are not lead this, anyone who wish to help can lead this simple project.
    "compassion and tolerance are not a sign of weakness,but a sign of strenght"
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  15. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    The motors case dosnt affect anything. The motor itself is providing most of the power.

    The led lights contain circuits that I am pretty help as they have a capacitor and I would suspect a diode rectifier or the leds wired as a rectifier.

    Hex I took it to mean same coil but thicker wire, hence less turns, like alot of thread I am trying to do best guesses all the time. There is alot squirming going on, so I am going to get my wire and post a you tube myself bebunking this rubbish.

    Dont start telling me it has to be a certain brand of microwave!! If you could measure the inductance and resistance of the coil anyone could build and match it. But a coil is a coil.

    This is all a bit of a trick, the lights have a circuit that can store some energy in the caps etc. The motor induces a electro magnetic field and the little magnet focuses it. Simple. So two more videos and you still havnt tried a little normal torch bulb???? Hmmmm let me guess those are not special enough?

    Dont worry this thread is near an end, if I have too I will go out tomorrow when the shops open and buy some wire. I will prove to you that if you take the motor some distance aay and keep the ball spinning where it is, you will get next to no power. The same if you take that type of bulb out.

    As for other videos.... Yeah I seen the magic ones, I also know how its done ;)


    I am done here for now, I will post a video when I have built my coil, I might also show you haw to light a string of those lights with a little magnet and motor ;).
     
  16. alec_t

    alec_t Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    :confused:!
     
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  17. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    LG - you mising something I already told you we have small amp in our movies like you said so it is imposible to use normal bulb on the setup from the movie because it will not work we didn.t said something diferent. so you will not help us to analyze the rotative magnetic field?
    with all the respect but the iron from the metal case of the motor presented in the video - it is not our movie -is helping a lot. it is not magic.
    our atention is on the rotative system we used not on the coil we wish to improve it is clear for everybody with a diferent coil we will obtain diferent results thats why we asked what kind of other materials we can used instead the coil to tranform the rotative magnetic field in energy. it can be also for example a non coventional material.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  18. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Ok so now all you got to do is make a shaft for the motor and magnet, move the motor away from the magnet. Or replace the magnet with a normal ball bearing. You should get nearly the same effect!

    That then proves inductive coupling and not a generator.
     
  19. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Why the funny face Alex???? I am pretty sure thats our School moto :D


    the reason is educational we are not trying to educate
     
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  20. cowboybob

    cowboybob Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Since YouTube is the OP's chosen fountain of all knowledge:

    I offer this opinion.
     
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  21. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Yeah kinda like this
     
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