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project small generator 3

Discussion in 'Alternative Energy' started by sciencetoolbar, Apr 4, 2017.

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  1. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    The links without movies are where the info is. I hate maths, but your not going to get far without alot of it, trial and error is good for quick and dirty but tells you little. To explain what is going on your going to need to read alot of pretty heavy duty material.

    Or NOT.
    TBH I keep saying this but I do that because 100% true. While you work on this as a generator, NO ONE is interested! Your trying to sell stone square wheels to car mechanics!! But stop calling it a wheel and start treating it like a washable hardstanding that can catch oil drips............ Some just might have a use for it.
     
  2. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    I chosed the name with atention...and if is not written in the books? so an example in general lets say you find something strange, first you are going to an expert and he kindly told you it is not in my area to expertise this succes. then you go with that in the related field to have some opinions from people with experience and knowledges ...isn.t it ? it is just an example....
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  3. alec_t

    alec_t Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Unless you used two magnets of identical strength and identically positioned for the comparison the assumption about efficiency is unproved.
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    I.m glad to have your opinion. the cube neodymyum magnet it was in the same position placed (between poles in the holder and same position cube - coil.the strenght of the cube magnet used is higher than the strenght of the sphere but in this particular case the obtained voltage is half of the sphere)

    thx st
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  6. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    Ps the strenght of the cube used is with 21.621621 % over the sphere....
     
  7. alec_t

    alec_t Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Do the cube and the sphere have the same number of magnetic poles, and are they oriented the same?
     
  8. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    yes. they have.yes the same orientation
     
  9. cowboybob

    cowboybob Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    (My emphasis).
    STB, you have stated, a number of times now, that what you want are our opinions, not links to facts. Just links to movies that present pictures of something, that then let the viewer (you or I, in this case) form an opinion of what we're seeing. How does any "opinion" prove anything?

    Science (part of your name) does not stand on an opinion that cannot be proven by facts. For example, just because someone has an opinion that "The Moon is made out of cheese!" does not prove that the Moon is, in fact, made out of cheese.

    Or, how about this: In my opinion, I am the center of the solar system (even, perhaps, the Universe!) because I can see that every day (Fact#1) the Sun (and the Stars) travel over my head (Fact #2), East to West (Fact#3), in what can only be described as a circle (Fact #4), with me in the center (Fact #5). And I challenge you to prove me wrong, or right for that matter. And, you are not allowed nor encouraged to suggest that I should look at any so called additional "Facts". Simply answer from the 5 Facts I have presented; am I, or am I not, in your opinion, the center of the Universe?

    Your refusal (as stated) to investigate the links to the facts and proven science about your generator's behavior will forever prevent you from truly understanding anything about it other than: 1. there's a motor, 2. magnets, 3. coils(s), 4. a 250V 7W light bulb and, 5. some wire. Oh, and some opinions.

    If you consider us to be the experts, why do you reject our fact based advice? If all you want are our opinions, then fine, here's mine:

    You're wasting energy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  10. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    I.m glad to have your opinion cowboybob. I didn.t refuse the informations but I wish to go further so I need opinions from everybody it is a simple system nothing complicated for the members it is a school project. (it can be easy replicated by a 12 year school boy)
    if some one ask me a question in my field I will tell him my opinion I will not put him to read books or ask him how much he knows.

    Nihil sine Deo.
    thx st
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  11. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    The point is you havnt found anything, you have witnessed a well known and documented fact. Lets say you have a chicken and it lays an egg, now lets assume you never seen an egg before. No point running around shouting something edible has come out of my chickens bum!! Yes it might seem new to you, but trust me alot of other people new eggs came out of chickens long before.

    I agree your generating electric, but that alone does not make it a generator. The only thing going on with the coil is the wireless energy transfer. Why would ANYONE be remotely interested in a generator that requires 10 times more POWER to run, than it actually generates? The fact the square magnet produces less is no surprise, what I said about square magnets was the following...

    A square magnet flat across the top of the coil and extending over the coils diameter will produce more energy than a sphere magnet. And this is the case.

    If you put the square inside the coil then no it dosnt work as well, this is because outside the coil you have a generator, and inside the coil the magnet acts as a inductive coupler, which I may have mentioned before.

    As for the name...

    Back to chickens, if a egg drops out the chickens bum, and you havnt seen it before, dont be surprised if your corrected when you tell people a pebble just came out the chickens bum.

    So why dont you want links? I thought you wanted educating on the principles going on? Or you going to insist you have discovered some new way to make a generator? Because sadly you havnt.
     
  12. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    You stated however you wished to learn about it, why is reading a link different from reading the info posted in a thread ;).
     
  13. cowboybob

    cowboybob Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    That's my point, ST!! You, apparently, assume that your opinion is all that person needs. What if your opinion contains concepts that are utterly confusing to the questioner? What if your opinion is inaccurate? Don't you feel an obligation to the student to let them know HOW you came to that opinion? What steps you took? Where the underlying basics can be found?

    And as a teacher, do you never test a student to find out "how much he knows"??
     
  14. tcmtech

    tcmtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    What 12 year old boy? You have shown and given absolutely zero information on how to build any of it. No motor specs, no coil dimensions, wire size, number of turns, Nothing of value despite having been asked repeatedly.

    So how exactly does that constitute educational to anyone or buildable by a 12 year old?

    LG is of way above average intelligence for a 16 year old and he admits most of what he has done was based on educated guesses and little more being you have not given anything solidly definable to work from.
     
  15. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    Barba non facit philosophum
    we are away out ou the topic we can have this discussion at the end of the project on a diferent forum. the questions are simple the same is the project so lets resume at the simple questions I' ve asked and untill now only you and alec-t shared us some opinions.
     
  16. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    at the begining of the thread.....
    "small generator homemade -"small generator" - AC generator - A diffrent approach
    Things I used to create the generator in the movie:

    3V Dc motor + plastic stalk ( inside “2 function toy” cars both parts; plastic stalk is used to fix the case of the toy car)
    7w AC led light bulb+ E 27 socket lead+ wires
    3,7 v - 600 mah Li-Po battery ( mini drones)
    Neodymium magnet sphere diameter 12.7 mm + neodymium magnet screw thread ( just the metallic case needed – without the inside magnet)
    Copper coil (inside microwave oven turntable motor)
    Construction kit (toys) plastic and metal–used for the coil and the 3v dc motor holder
    Power switch.
    Important observations regarding "small generator":
    1. the angle between the coil and the rotating sphere it is a must - like in the presented video -otherwise the output voltage will be low
    2. The position of the neodymium sphere magnet on the metallic case is a must-like in the video - otherwise the output voltage it will be low (“metal socket”) N-S – I establish the position with a small iron screw.
    3. I used nonmagnetic materials for the coil holder area otherwise the magnetic components will influence, in the bad way, the rotation of the sphere (like a magnetic brake+ the attraction force )


    Observations: different types of DC motors, diffrent copper coils, diffrent batteries, diffrent neodymium magnets we obtained different voltages. RPM - important factor.

    Note:
    using magnetic sphere - 2 poles - high RPM nedeed for high voltage - like in the movie
    we will try to use more magnets on a sphere to obtain the same voltage at low RPM
    also a liquied or a gas between the sphere and the coil can give a better "yield"


    PS: we have 5 movies on the science toolbar channel all related.

    "small generator 3" homemade project is looking forward for ideas to improve the small generator for educational purpose.

    thx" - at the begining of the thread



    tcm - it is realy simple all pieces from the products I have used are made in C...a, cheap products, they are coming without details and specifications, why do you think?, I will not transform into the CERN for them , I have energy, but I don.t have time. I wish to go further with the project for educational........
    it is an open project so please share us your opinion refering at the question we have in discusion in this point

    materials brief "small generator 2"
    3v dc motor runing with 2 bateries AA 1.5 V
    neodymyum sphere 12.7 mm all the details are in the description of the provider.....
    neodymyum "pot "screw 12.7 mm - just the case nedeed - all the specifications.....
    baterry 3.7 v 600 mah
    and a standard coil used in the motors of a laminator A4 2w or a turntable owen 2w - 4w ....

    thx st
    we will get there but lets remain for the begining at the case 1. which impicate a neodymyum sphere 26 mm a 5.1 v baterry......what kind of fields we have.....are they dangerous, why the sphere in this particular case is generating more voltage when the system is complete....in comparation with the cube with a strenght higher than the sphere.... (2 poles magnets....)....neodymium cube used 10 mm.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  17. alec_t

    alec_t Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    That's hardly a fair comparison! No wonder you got a lower output voltage with the cube. The larger magnet would have provided better inductive coupling between the motor coil and the other coil. A large lump of non-magnetised iron/steel would probably have done so as well. That's something you could try.
     
  18. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    noooo!!!! please tcm do not make my life harder....(remain to the actual subjects) we have 7 movies on the channel....i don.t wish to transform the discusion in a labirint
    alec the comparation was between 12.7 mm neodym sphere and 10 mm cube .

    thx !
     

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  19. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Ok lets try this again:rolleyes:

    In no particular order

    The waves involved are mainly 4 types (someone correct me if I forget any)

    1) Magnetic waves, yes let call them waves seeing as we have decided real names dont matter. For those that like science these waves are actually Magnetic fields, they only become waves in certain sci fi machines. These come from the various magnets in the circuit, while we are pretending only one magnet exists, actually the motor has some as well. But lets not get hung up on technically stuff, this is meant to be educational not informational!!! :confused:

    2) Electro magnetic waves, again dont call them fields unless you want to use correct terms!! These can be ignored for educational purposes. But if you just want to know something and not learn anything, then you may call them Electro Magnetic Fields. Which depending which wiki page you read (if your allowed to read), is what EMF stands for, although I have also seen it stand for Electro Magnetic Force....

    3) Radio waves... These will be coming from different aspects, for a start the commutator on the motor sparks, the first radio used sparks to generate Radio waves. Yes they are actually waves. I havnt looked at them closely with the Spectrum analyzer yet. So I dont know what frequencies are involved. But as the motor is inductive and dosnt have any suppression, it would be reasonable to assume some high frequency stuff in the mix.

    Is It Dangerous?

    Yes and NO. Its mainly dangerous because alot of this is being twisted into something it isnt. But on the other hand anyone with sense will have read the links so most will be safe.

    Is It Harmful? No, not at all with the power levels involved. We are dealing with extremely small amounts of power. Yes 200V+ sounds alot, but power (as in coulombs and joules etc), are very very low. If your not doing this for educational purposes then you can work the power out. The formulae is simply Volts Multiplied by the Amps. In this case dont forget that 1mA is NOT 0.1A!!

    A mA is actually 0.001A, so when you see figures like 200V it sounds alot. But the motor itself is only using 5.1 V @ ~ 480mA (I think that was the figure given). So on the motor side this would be 5.1 X 0.480 = 2.448W So would you be frighted of a small motor hurting you? if you look at the coil side then its even lower..

    We know the voltage is 200V we know the meter shows 0.00A, So from this we can confer that the coil produces under 9mA if it produced over that then the meter would read 0.01A.

    Keep in mind you can light a led with ANY voltage above its Vf (forward Voltage) Most leds are between 2.2V-~3.7V. Most leds will light and be easy to see at 1mA, I have dev kits with smd leds that pull uA!!!. But lets be generous and say the coil produces 1mA.

    So you have 200 X 0.001A = 0.2W

    So compare the two, the motor uses 2.448W of power to produce 0.2W of power. Extra marks for anyone smart enough to spot the problem here. Incase you cant I will spell it out.

    Lets say I offer you a job, the deal is you pay me £2.44 per hour to work for me, in return for your work I will pay you £0.20 per hour. Sound fair? Apply by pm please.

    HOWEVER lets not forget this educational, so facts dont matter. Lets concentrate on what we THINK we Know. We think because the bulb has 7W on it, then it will only work at 7W. We will ignore that the fact that leds are actually Diodes that emit light, we will forget that Leds are a CURRENT device.

    So now we do our calcs based on the wrong assumptions we have made, so we assume that we have produced 7W.
    Now this is a real problem, because you have to decide something at this point. Do you believe in SCIENCE FACT or do you believe in SCIENCE FICTION?

    Here is the problem you face if assume 200V @ 7W. Because that would mean the coil had produced 35mA, Obviously if that had happened the meter would have read 0.03A But it didnt.

    So lets look at the more likely figures. @1mA the coil would produce 200V X 0.001 = 0.2W. Now these figures dont seem too bad. Until you work out that use 12.24 X the power than you produce. Dosnt sound much but try and scale that up!!

    Even best case scenario would be 200V X 0.009A = 1.8W

    Still using more than it makes. But using real numbers with meters that can read uA, you find out that 1.8W Is a dream and not reality. This is why we have no results from the OP regarding trying a bulb or motor ;). simply because there is not enough power produced to light anything other than a very low current device ;).

    But its all educational so facts dont matter, instead we focus on the 200V and clap ourselves on the back. We also ignore that 200V from a magnet,motor,coil and 5.1V power source, is pretty pee poor compared to around 5000V produced in one the videos using just dripping water! Or 25 X more Voltage from dripping water than the current set up that uses a battery!. But still the OP wonders why no one is wetting themselves with awe and wonder.....
     
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  20. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    You have several other problems.

    Look at your meter, why is it reading different mV all over the place when not connected to anything? Mine stays rock steady on 0.000V. So how can you trust your measurements.

    Your meter has a mA so why mote measure the out put of the coil in mAmps with a load and without a load? Voltage is nothing without a Amp reading. As I pointed out the guy in the other video gets 5000V with dripping water. Kind of makes your 200 odd volts look puny dosnt it. Especially as he dosnt use ANY battery.
     
  21. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    so we have the first opinion of a profesionist - thx LG - we never said we can power up a 100 w bulb ,we said someone can discover something more interesting (that is the reason we gave the oxigen experiment as example in the begining of the thread)

    so we have a "rotative magnetic field" under the motor, generated by the 26 mm neodymyum sphere. which is not dangerous, wihout the coil, which is the key factor in our project, I know LG will tell us is the coil - already established using a thicker wire for the coil will generates more amps...Agree LG?

    science toolbar
     
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