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project small generator 3

Discussion in 'Alternative Energy' started by sciencetoolbar, Apr 4, 2017.

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  1. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I am going to look at this for other reasons, I dont see much point trying to show you whats going on, your just not taking on board what we are telling you. Google magnet motor, you will see your 30mm magnet in a plastic tube, surrounded by a coil and going like the clappers!

    Explain why you think the magnet being round makes it more efficient? Because it dosnt, but I would like to know what makes you so sure that it does.
     
  2. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Over to you TC, I am out of here. My interest is in the resonance and seeing if I can get gas to glow in a tube safely :D. I think this horse is well and truly flogged. I will post up my results in another thread, it would be good to see the exact figures to compare how efficient each system is and what frequencies each gas excites at. Gut feeling though is the energy neded is going to be above what is safe. But if its lower than the MOTs most use now, then its still a win.
     
  3. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    it is clear for everybody thats includes me, you have wright, more then that you just told us how to improve our small gen
    thx for everything
    science toolbar
    the exposure to Emf can be dangerous
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. tcmtech

    tcmtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Only under very specific conditions. Much like everything else.
     
  6. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    can you tell us the conditions tcm?
     
  7. cowboybob

    cowboybob Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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  8. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    I think LG will kill me, today I have tested the shape of neodymyum proposed by him on the same coil of the small generator 2, the voltage is half compared with the sphere.....in this particular
    case of course.
    PS:we can try any kind of shape of neodymyum magnets and sizes for other sugestions.
    thx science toolbar
    thx for the link CB I will read it with atention
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
  9. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Why would I kill you?

    On the contrary I am pleased you got different results! Are you watching the vids I post? if not I wont go looking for them, I use the videos to save me typing books and books. Your results are different because you had the magnet inside the coil and not over it. Now until I can wind a larger coil I cant do much. So the following is pure guess work until I can actually do it.

    If the magnet was inside the coil like the round one was, then to me that pretty much confirms you coupled the motor. Some of the best 'real' work that has been done on light weight efficient generators, is in the wind turbine field. Alot of money has been pumped into research on them because you want as small and powerful a generator as you can get.

    I hate wind turbines because in 4 years I have become surrounded by the ugly things! BUT I looked after three QR5 quiet revolution ones near to where I lived, they were rubbish because of the speed control, and have now been dismantled. Well almost completely............They are waiting for the ground to dry out to get to the control boxes to get rid of the rest. I will be getting the inverters and the generators.

    Anyway the point is Everything I have read over the last 2-3 years on wind turbines and generators backs up the square magnet thing (actually they are not exactly square, they are oblong with a small bit off each corner). Now square is great for generation but not so good for inductive coupling. One of the videos I posted shows this well, the ball spins in the centre like mad, no light comes on, then it suddenly stops dead centre and the light comes on. This is the point the coil has reach resonance.

    The bit that annoys me in a way is, you just plonk a magnet on a motor and reach resonance just like that!!! The rest of us have to muck about for ages tuning the coil etc to get it right! So that is kind of why I got interested, maybe tuning the coil is as simple as spinning a round magnet and measuring the optimum speed, then tune the coil to that.

    I have been really upfront, I am not interested at all in this as a generator, it is old tech and TBH yours is appalling bad efficiency. But it is almost worth my time and effort because I think your actually inductively coupling, and that does interest me. Either way I wont be happy until I know one way or the other. So for now I will carry on with the experiment.

    As a side note I have suddenly found its really hard to find decent lengths of copper magnet wire in scrap equipment!!! It seems SMPS has taken over the world and finding decent size transformers with alot of wire in isnt so easy any more! So I did find enough to wind a good pick up coil, but not enough to wind some decent sized coils. This is why I now got to wait on the ebay fairy.

    All I will do is post all my numbers and some pics, others can look the figures over and see if they look right. But one way or the other it will be conclusive. And dont think because I am positive that you have coupled the motor, this will bias me, because it wont. I am not interested in proving myself right, I am interested in seeing what is going on. I have a theory so now I will try and disprove it, if I cant disprove it then I have to except my theory was correct. I think its called science. Or it might just be the way I do stuff.
     
  10. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    The emf stuff................ At the frequencies and power your using it wont make you any more insane that you are already. At most it might really annoy any amateur radio operator you have living near you, but I think even then at less than 1W your not going to make too much noise. Jim might bash me for saying that :D.

    Oh and I got my answer on the spectrum analyser (Thanks again Jim), so I am happy to use that as well.
     
  11. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    I puted the proposed square magnet in the same position like the sphere betwwen the poles - and the same position square magnet - coil and the results ..... half of the sphere (refering to voltage...) It is a particular case. I watched the movies. I reads CB link, and I' m trying to get some open opinions from TCM. I know magnets are more efficients if the temp. is lower, if you heat them....you will destroy them, we will discuss separated about this,

    The EMF stuff....
    we have to know all the details - isn't it....? we don't wan't at the end of this project an ineficient and a dangerous small generator ( refering to the EMF produced by the generator/inverter)
    That's why my proposal is to make small steps and note some conclusions together. I invite everybody to share knowledges about the fields. I like to learn from you.

    Question no 1 : (related with the first part of the movie " small generator 1" - - the rotative system without the coil - attached picture)
    external phone batery 5,1 V + DC motor of a cheap electric toy runing with 3 bateries AA 1.5 V " musical car" + neodymyum sphere 26 mm + plastic holder (inside "the musical car" with the metal holder ( ex screw neodynyum magnet " magnet pot" - just the metal case of it ) what kind of field generates when the Dc motor is powered?
    PS: the specifications of the neodymyum 26 mm sphere magnet are on the neodymyum magnet sellers websites
    thx science toolbar
     

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    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
  12. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Well the spectrum analyser will tell you alot, but your not pushing much power, so growing two heads isnt going to happen. If you have a mobile phone your pushing alot more power through your brain.
     
  13. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    i don.t wish to push more power the porpose is educational...lets take this particular case
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
  14. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    can you tell us your opinion LG?
     
  15. cowboybob

    cowboybob Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I think you would agree that the search for knowledge is best pursued by acquiring the basic concepts.

    Without the basics, any thorough understanding of a process (chemical, mechanical, electrical, biological, whatever) can never be achieved. And thus, as a result, the process can never be properly taught to a student. It is apparent to me that you lack some essential electrical concepts basics. For instance, "What, exactly, is electricity" ?"What is a Volt"? "What is an Amp"? "What is a Watt"? What is "Magnetic Flux"?. Without that knowledge, you can never understand what, or more importantly, why is there an Electro-Magnetic-Force, or the resultant Electro-Magnetic-Field. Everything you are currently observing with your students is predicated on answering the preceding questions.

    I, of course, do not speak for ETO. But, for my part, I am having a difficult time with your questions because you have been advised to investigate some basic electrical concepts and presented with opportunities to do so. But, you persist in ignoring that advice and continue to expect us to provide answers that you are ill-prepared to apply to those questions.

    It isn't magic, STB, but your queries imply that you think, or assume, that it is.

    Let's try this experiment:
    Google "Volt definition" (also known as "electric potential difference"). Read more than just one entry, if need be. Do your best to grasp the concept of what a "volt" represents.

    Then come back to us and give us your understanding of the concept of a "volt".

    We'll be more than glad to provide you with any clarifications that may seem appropriate.
     
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  16. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    At the moment I dont have an option but to conclude you proved inductive coupling. And here is why.........

    The technology of electric generation has been studied (and continues ad naseum) for a extremely long time. Oddly enough it was known about and studied for a long time with people using oil lamps........

    Because of how fields work the best (read most efficient), are those with well defined poles. Think of it as concentrated poles, makes sense right? The more magnetic field at each end gives the most.
    The next thing that was discovered was what happens when you vary the coil, so loads thin wire with alot of turns give alot of Voltage and those with thicker wire and fewer turns give more current. Now this is starting to sound alot like something called a transformer is it not? The principles are very similar in alot of ways. What I will look at for you is the coupling side, the following is exactly what I think happened with your experiment.......

    The magnet ball inside in the coil and spinning, sets up the resonance, this just means its chaotic field excites the coil. The motor on the outside also has a large magnetic field. Why? Because a motor spun by something else is a generator!! Connect any DC motor like yours to a drill and spin it up, read the voltage off the tabs. Most will be small but some are really high.

    Anyway the point is when you spin a motor you are creating a magnetic field, simply because they contain coils of wire and magnets or iron sections. Your motor is on the outside of the coil, this is the best place for a magnetic field to be picked up by a coil (think transformer ish). So you had a resonating field inside and a pick up field outside. The volatage within the coil rose.

    Here is why the square one dosnt work inside the coil, its the wrong shape,size and speed for the coil. The field isnt good enough to resonate, I bet playing with different motors and speed you could get it to resonate though. Interesting and again something I will see if a square magnet will resonate.

    Be aware our figure can never match exactly, you would need precise details like the coil inductance etc, I will give you my figures including inductance readings, if you ever get a LCR meter you can then exactly replicate my findings. I also have a couple of meters that can read accurately below 1 Ohm so I will give all the info I can on the set ups.
     
  17. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    CB cheers, you wrote as I was typing! I totally agree, but gave up trying to explain why it isnt a generator as such. Instead I chose the path of showing him why it isnt :D. Beside I havnt wound coils and messed with nonsense for ages, so any excuse to mess about with this again :D. Actually the whole magnetic coupling thing is one of my favourites, I never get tired of seeing it done.

    OP google crystal radio and build one. That will teach you some fundamental truths about what you think electricity is. Put it this way....... How can a circuit that isnt powered pick up and play music??? How can the same circuit have a voltage on it when its playing music!!!! Both are true and they are simple to build but hard ish to tune at times. What you built is a sort of cross between a radio,transformer,generator, and god knows what! But you stumbled on something that could give you a life long passion if you study it in steps.

    I bet you turn out to be a RF guy. If a magnetic field over a coil gets you going, your going to wet yourself with a crystal radio.
     
  18. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    Coboy Bob - I know the base thx for the opinion, I' m e......r not a 3 year child which played with an electrical toy and transforme it in a "small generator", I wish to discover together it is not a private discusion

    science toolbar
     
  19. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    with LG and TCM it is from the house :) but lets get back to the first question... to end this and note some conclusions.
     
  20. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Woooo hold on. Cowboy has multimeters that have forgot more than I will ever know, please show a bit of respect to others!! FFS I am 16!!! Like I said I learnt the little I know from these guys, I listened to them so I suggest you show them some respect. I have a different approach that is all. You come accross like you know little, that is why they are susgesting some reading.

    I am not doing that simply because I recognise where you are. I got lost in the coil thing a few years back, it was like voodoo. So I am being nice because I know its easy to see something and not recognise whats going on. In your case it was the exact same thing as I was doing with coils. But I will tell you something free, start disrespecting members and its over. We dont know if your 3 or 33, you tell us nothing.
     
  21. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    I respect everyone if someone consider I ofence him now is the wright moment to tell us. age n/a ocupation n/a how much I do know n/a
     
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