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project small generator 3

Discussion in 'Alternative Energy' started by sciencetoolbar, Apr 4, 2017.

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  1. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    He cant give any figures!!! The figures are mainly from my tests and an educated guess.

    How can he get any figures? he cant read the low miliamps so how can he measure the power used on the coil side??

    Actually OP your meter can read mA, you numpty, use the other Amps sockets on the meter and stick it into mA range!!! You were measuring in Amps so the scale is only 2 digits, switch to mA and you should get 3 digits.
     
  2. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hex the discrepancy is one set of figures was for the 3,3V battery and one set for the single cell 1.5V battery. The figures jump around so I averaged them out. He gives numbers for the motor side but hasnt yet done the coil and light side. Fear not next week when more wire arrives I will put this to bed!

    if you like I can do oscope shots as well, if you really really want I will use a small inductor to place around the coil and show you the field on the Oscope using the other inductor coil as a pick up.

    The mods wont shut the thread down unless you get silly. Start talking star dust etc then sure it deserves to be closed, so far you just seem resistant to the idea of whats going on. Actually like I said before, your missing the interesting part!!
     
  3. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    I am very interested about your conclusions regarding the rotative magnetic field created by a 30 mm neodymyum sphere fixed between the poles ( 3500 - 34.000 RPM) first without the coil PS: I know 100 % how to use multimeteres since 20 years. I never asked about this. so far I did something wrong?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Until I wind another coil I can only tell you what I found by trying out your first video. The magnet being round is terrible at producing magnetic fields inside a coil, if you take a bit of paper and put on top of a square magnet, then sprinkle iron powder on the paper, you will see clearly defined magnetic fields. Do the same with a sphere magnet and the fields are not as defined.

    Also a round magnet gives a really dirty scope output, noise and spikes all over the place. I will find you a video of a guy who built a wind turbine generator, in it he tells you why a square magnet that just covers each coil works best.

    Your mistake with the multi meter was the setting and and using the Amps socket. Your meter has a milli Amp and a Amp socket, if you plug the lead of the meter into the mA socket and switch the range over from Amps to mA on your meter you should be able to read down to mA. So instead of getting 0.00 your meter should should show .000, so you should be able to see something like .001 or whatever.

    From that you can work out your actual Watts produced by the coil, that way when you mes with different magnets and move the motor away but keep the magnet where it is you can take proper readings. in this case its border line you will light the leds without the motor being close.

    The other thing I think is going on, is the magnet is acting like a core in a cored inductor, again I need to wait until my magnet wire arrives so I can give you the numbers. Once you can take real readings you have a start point, this will at least let you know how much each thing you change affects things.

    69% efficient is a number you based on the assumption that a 7W led light uses 7W of power from the coil. In this case it dosnt! It is nowhere near it. Get a torch light bulb (not led), something rated for say 3V or 1.5V and replace where the led is, I bet it wont glow. Even at your 240V its unlikely you will light the 1.5V bulb.

    But again I cant try it until the ebay fairies arrive with my new wire.
     
  6. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    The other thing I think the ball magnet might do is simply create enough chaos with the magnetic field that it allows the motor magnets and magnetic field to inductively couple with the coil. So your actually powering the coil from the motor rather than the magnet itself. That one is easy for you to test, just graft a much longer shaft onto the motor shaft. Make the shaft 18 inches away from the coil, if your not inductively coupling the motor then its unlikely you will get as much power out the coil. But you wont know by how much until you read the mA from the coil side.
     
  7. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I tell you what I will open another thread, you can give me the details that you want testing. Unfortunately you will have to be basic as you dont have most your data. So think of a goal or set of goals. For example........

    I know you want a 30mm ball magnet used
    I know you had a motor and roughly what current it pulls without a load and with a load.
    I know you want 200V+
    I know you want a 7W led lamp lit.
    I know you want a screw or something else thrown into the mix.....
    So that is about all the info you can give, yes I know its a microwave coil but no information on the coil stats. So your going to have to make do with a coil I make.


    To make this totally fair for you, I will completely wipe my mind of any information it has. I will conduct the experiments totally open minded, we will rely on the numbers we get and reach the conclusion based upon the figures we get. OK?

    So what can we measure?
    Well I have a couple of decent 4 channel O scopes, so we can see the wave forms and measure frequencies.
    I have a couple of old but pretty accurate bench meters, so voltage and current no problem, I will take the readings at the same time using computer software to log the data from the meters.

    I have a LCR meter so I can measure the coil resistance and inductance, and the motor resistance and inductance.
    I can make a motor speed controller or use the BLDC dev kit motor which has speed control.
    I will fix the magnet shaft in any position and angel you like, I will add a collar couple so I can extend the shaft as well (taking the motor out the way).
    I have a dremel drill with flexi shaft so I can spin the magnet at the same RPM's as the motor but using the shaft instead.

    So with all that I can investigate anything you like within reason. If anyone else has any ideas of what to measure chip in.
    Once we do the experiments, all you got to do is agree to the conclusion based upon the data, is that ok?

    Some of the other things I will try is different magnets so you can see any differences etc.
     
  8. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    first video is without the holder my hands are not acting like a holder....I know also how to set up the multimeter to read the amps, I know how to see the magnetic lines, all I wish to know is an expert opinion... Only test where with a radio and it works lets resume to the bulbs.

    thx science toolbar
     
  9. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    I will look for a 3- 4 w ac bulb to see if it works or not non led. I agree but start with the sphere first. And keep us updated.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  10. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    first video is without the holder my hands are not acting like a holder....I know also how to set up the multimeter to read the amps, I know how to see the magnetic lines, all I wish to know is an expert opinion... I' ve tried just with a radio and I managed to power it up .....( I know the future questions: W?, what kind of radio, what is read on the charger,

    thx science toolbar
     
  11. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    "The area around a magnet within which magnetic force is exerted, is called a magnetic field. It is produced by moving electric charges. The presence and strength of a magnetic field is denoted by “magnetic flux lines”. The direction of the magnetic field is also indicated by these lines. The closer the lines, the stronger the magnetic field and vice versa. When iron particles are placed over a magnet, the flux lines can be clearly seen. Magnetic fields also generate power in particles which come in contact with it. Electric fields are generated around particles that bear electric charge. Positive charges are drawn towards it, while negative charges are repelled.

    A moving charge always has both a magnetic and an electric field, and that’s precisely the reason why they are associated with each other. They are two different fields with nearly the same characteristics. Therefore, they are inter-related in a field called the electromagnetic field. In this field, the electric field and the magnetic field move at right angles to each other. However, they are not dependant on each other. They may also exist independently. Without the electric field, the magnetic field exists in permanent magnets and electric fields exist in the form of static electricity, in absence of the magnetic field"
     
  12. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    PS : 69 % percent refering at the" luminous flux", we are an educational channel we are not supporting perpetuum mobile theory. the title is lighting a 7 W led bulb, not a 7 W generator....



    Our wish is to have experts opinion for our small project educational purpose.

    Thx st
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  13. tcmtech

    tcmtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    But I cant replicate it because you have yet to give any relevant and useful details to work from. :rolleyes:

    As far as finding something new and useful from it I seriously doubt it given the principle of how to turn mechanical motion into electrical power had bee studied in extramly fined detail for over 150 years now.

    Both the theory and the actual laws of physics behind the concepts are extremely well known and understood. So well understood that if you gave any working information about the components used many of us here could tell you in fine detail things about your design you don't know. :oops:
     
  14. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Of course it will work with a radio, what is radio power measured in ;), instead on a normal antenna the coil picks up the power from the radio waves. radio is just another form of energy. Hence why a transmitter power is measured in Watts, what your not doing is measuring how many of the Watts your picking up................ Take you coil and light and go stand under a HV power line, guess what...........The light will light up!!!
     
  15. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Actually if you want to look at the radio side I have an idea........

    BUT and it is a big BUT, only if Jim chips in with a link to buy a DC block or how to make one for my spectrum analyzer. I have a HP spec analyzer but it is 0V tolerant of DC voltage, so I would want a decent DC block on the input before connecting the coil. Jim is the Radio guy here. That way we can look at different radio frequencies from different radio stations and see what we get. Yes we could use a function generator or signal generator (I also have both), but radio stations might be more fun.

    Speaking of radio I can show you the amount of radio noise your kicking out with this generator, I am lucky I live miles from anywhere so it wont interfere with anyone. But your set up is also generating radio waves.............. The spec analyzer will show which frequencies and the harmonics.
     
  16. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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  17. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Actually the more I think on this the more I think I might have an application for it. I know a small neon indicator bulb can be made to glow like this. So what I am thinking about is resonance and low power.

    I collect elements (yeah I know thats sad!), element collectors pay good money for sealed glass vials of colours gas! Some are Helium,Argon etc etc etc. Great for the collection except the are all a clear gas :(.
    Some collectors use a MOT,neon or flyback transformer to excite the tubes and make the gas glow. I dont because I dont like the idea of a MOT powering a glass tube of gas! But what if a low powered coil at the right frequency could excite it, ok might still take a fair bit of energy but hitting the resonance of each gas might make it alot safer and alot lower power. Dont get me wrong I dont mind clear glass vials..........But purple glowing ones would be better :D.
     
  18. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    it is obviously that we have a small amperage but increasing the voltage at 4000 V we should light up a 11 w Hg buth with a more powerfull motor and a larger batery....write know with small generator 3 -11w HG - is just flashing....thats why I wish to increase rhe voltage
     
  19. tcmtech

    tcmtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    You need more wattage (more amps behind the present voltage) to make things work.

    I Suspect your lamp flashes because it has a small capacitor in its internal power supply that regulated the power the LEDs which once charged up to a high enough voltage causes the LEDs to reach their forward drop breakover voltage and conduct until they capacitor is drained down far enough them to shut off.

    I don't follow your intent to teach given you clearly have such a poor understanding of how things work and an even worse ability to communicate what you have done and do understand as well. :(
     
  20. sciencetoolbar

    sciencetoolbar Member

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    I will be more then glad to learn about the electricity from you but maybe someone will find something more useful regarding the rotation of the neodymyum sphere at high rpm.
    thx for all the suport science toolbar
     
  21. Little Ghostman

    Little Ghostman Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Stick the magnet inside a clear plastic pot and put a lid on, a drop of oil inside helps. Now stick the container inside the coil field, power the coil up and use say a hall affect sensor to fire the coil up every time the magnet N pole passes it. Now you have a extremely fast ball motor...........

    Some of the magnets reach speeds of a couple of hundred thousand RPM's at around 2-3A. So all your doing is the reverse of this. Try the Hard Drive neo magnets, they will put alot more power out that the round magnet. I know you think this is something worth looking at, but you refuse point blank to except what your being told. This isnt a generator in the true sense, it is a very inefficient method of transferring energy. Use thicker coil wire and go for lower volts and higher amps. Use a bigger square neo magnet that just covers the diameter of the coil and spin it 3-4mm above the coil. Vary the speed untill you hit resonance (you will know when, as the current and voltage will be highest).

    Trust me a 30mm square neo magnet above the coil will beat the round ball one every time.
     
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